When I was 8, I remember being bored and curious and touching a lot of parents stuff... phones... wallets... legal documents...

Most parents don't put their stuff in safes...

Like... THE WALLET IS RIGHT THERE... I COULD JUST GRAB IT!

If they had age verification stuff back then... I could've just... quickly snap a pic of their ID and just YOLO it...

Anyway it’s not about Age Verification, it’s about control, coercitive control. You go to an environmental manifestation and your dad get a call, that type of thing

It's going to create a cottage industry of virtual humans. They completely exist on paper, but not in real life.

Back when i was that young there was nothing to take a snap with, cameras back then had to develop film...

Not that we had a computer or internet at that time

Well, hopefully the parents are there to stop it ...

Yes. None of these laws prevent children from viewing porn or whatever. It just forces them to do this or go to unregulated sides.

Cant stop it when you're asleep...

wakes up in the middle of the night and tip-toe to where the wallet is... 😈

Most age verification providers also require video with the person's face doing specific movements, which is then matched with the ID, so stealing an ID probably wouldn't be enough.

Not that it'll stop kids from trying, and sending their parent's ID to some random sketchy company without their knowledge anyways.

Can even just find a picture of a random ID card. Maybe mock one up in Photoshop. Like, what's actually being fucking verified? That it's a picture with a human face? I mean, if it's ID or facescan, those facescan shits have already been tricked with images of video game characters.

Google/Youtube only requires either a selfie or an ID...

There was a constant fight between my mum and my brother and me, when we got banned from playing N64. Because we would try to find where she hid it and play while she was at work (and just put it back before she got home). But once she caught on to us it wasn't that hard to outsmart us ... I think she just put it in the car and to work at some point.

I guess these days you it's more about generally controlling how much internet access your kid has. And 8 year old really shouldn't have unrestricted access to the internet in the first place. They shouldn't even be in a position where they have to get around an website-based age check.

AI generated id of ones president or prime minister seems to be popular choice

I think I will start a site to sell autogenerated id pictures.

Sounds like a great result - it will add so much garbage data to the pile.

And then it becomes the parents fault and won’t be the fault of the [shadyinternetcompany^tm^] anymore.

I have been saying this for about a decade now

The only thing requiring government IDs online will accomplish is the creation of a market for immaculate fake IDs. That market will be fully satisfied.

Don't worry. Over the coming years they will find all the loopholes and tricks and close them off one by one until we're all securely tagged with electronic brain implants that can detect when you're thinking about lying about your exact age.

I think The People's Republic of China was having this issue with the videogame rule. I saw Public Information Films playing on loop on their trains, one of which had a child who took his dad's ID and credit card and started spending a lot of time and money on mobile games

Ok. AI of their dads face, doing those movements.

remembers scene in Idiocracy where they have a tattoo of a barcode on your wrist

Then the republicans will use those fake humans to vote for them, while accusing the democrats of doing just that.

Meanwhile the democrats aren't doing that, because they don't understand technology enough to even try. But they'll still regulate industries they don't understand.

And republicans will still use all of this to their advantage and push for Orwellian policies.

It's more about a difficulty barrier.

You could grab your Dad's ID, you could AI his face, his voice, even his writing style. But if that's too inconvenient/finicky for 90% of the population, that's "good enough" for the liability escape/coercive control the system is intended to create.

Ok?

I really don't see what this comment adds to the discussion, positive or negative. This is just a comment that's you saying:

"I'm old, and the world changed"

With the brain implants, they can just see how many years worth of memories you have.

reminder that South korea has been doing this shit with KSSN for games. anybody thinking IDs would stip kids is kidding themselves.

Don't worry. They would never use the brain implants to inspect your other thoughts and memories. They are only there to protect the children.

Bruh kids these days manage to steal a teacher's login to access the school wifi. Then they also have VPNs to bypass the firewall. They be playing video games in the school lunchroom lmfao. I seen it.

If a website requires a photo of a person ID or something like a drivers license, this is not "age verification", it's "identity verification".

That leads down a whole other rabbit hole of being tracked online.

Also if something like a website or pc starts asking me to upload documents with personal identifiable information on it (that not related to banking, healthcare, or a government service, I will straight up stop using it and block at my network level.

Change ID photo of dad's face to yours

Hence why I said most.

Regardless though, you know they're gonna up the ante as they go. The more normalized it becomes to share more data, the easier it is for them to ask everyone for it too.

Could work. A lot of the time these current systems have... dubious liveness checks.

Over time they're definitely going to get better, though, and I have a feeling that with AI watermarking being baked into a lot of the actually good models, it's not going to be super reliable or repeatable.

Kids these days? I remember putting a IRC/Runescape combo program on a flash drive so I could play Runescape with my guild during computer class 20 years ago. I have no idea why it got around the network restrictions, but it did.

Edit: The after school computer club turned into a Wolfenstein LAN party after somebody got on the teacher's account and put a pirated installer on the shared drive.

"Mom, why did hit me?" cries

"What, no honey I didn't hit you." presses button on smartphone app

"You fell, remember?"

"Oh yea, I fell. I love you mom."

Honestly I wonder if there is hidden trauma that I forgot because my mom had some brainwashing sci fi tech that deleted my memories...

As long as the platform can pretend there are no children it doesn’t need to provide safety features for them. Thats what this is about.

Adults can be exploited more freely and legally. As a bonus they are getting more personal information of having you provide proof that you are of exploitable age.

That kids will fake it will be blamed on the parents and not them.

Just like HR and legal department at any company, this isn't to protect the customers, this is to protect the owners.

None of the additional measures to verify age remove the need for “parents to parent.” This isn’t an either or situation. It’s an all of the above situation.

The sci fi tech is built into your brain. My wife doesn't remember anything from the 3 years or so that she was being abused.

I'm more worried about losing the memories I have right now this moment.

Like... what if future me decides to go no contact...

Then mom find a sketchy mad scientist to kidnap me then brainwash me

Then me, not having the memories of all those abusive moments, I'd go back and wanna talk to her again?

I don't even know if I am really who I am anymore...

Are those memories of us spending time together even real? Is the memories of cuddling ever real? Was love ever real?

Why do I have this craving for her affection? Even while I'm so anxious and afraid of her?

What the fuck is happening in my brain?

Aaaaaahhhh

"Well, Mr. Smith... I see here that your son used your ID to access illicit materials on the internet. Did you not think to secure it? You realize you're criminally liable for allowing a minor to access inappropriate material? And I see you were at the government protest last week... such a poor role model you are, Mr. Smith..."

Unless they verified their age first.

The US federal courts had an interesting opinion there: parents may always allow their children to access protected speech.
Even with sex-related materials, the Supreme Court has stated

the prohibition against sales to minors does not bar parents who so desire from purchasing the magazines for their children.

They regarded as constitutionally defective laws that impose a single standard of public morality.
Instead, they'd allow laws that "support the right of parents to deal with the morals of their children as they see fit".
Laws that take away parental control are also impermissible.

“It is cardinal with us that the custody, care and nurture of the child reside first in the parents, whose primary function and freedom include preparation for obligations the state can neither supply nor hinder.” Prince v. Massachusetts, supra, at 166.

In another decision, they regard & defend parental responsibility & discretion in leaving access open to children, and they find measures "enterprising and disobedient" children can circumvent preferable over unacceptable alternatives.

The Commonwealth argues that central blocking would not fulfill the state’s compelling interest as effectively as the access number does because minors with phone lines could request unblocking or could gain access to unblocked phones. It also argues that a parent who chooses to unblock the home’s phone to gain access to sexually explicit material for himself or herself thereby places dial-a-porn phone service within the reach of minors with access to that phone. In this respect, the decision a parent must make is comparable to whether to keep sexually explicit books on the shelf or subscribe to adult magazines. No constitutional principle is implicated. The responsibility for making such choices is where our society has traditionally placed it — on the shoulders of the parent. See Bolger v. Youngs Drug Products Corp., 463 U.S. 60, 73-74, 103 S.Ct. 2875, 2883-84, 77 L.Ed.2d 469 (1983) (parental discretion controlling access to unsolicited contraceptive advertisements in the home is the preferred method of dealing with such material).

Even with parental control, the Commonwealth is undoubtedly correct that there will be some minors who will find access to unblocked phones if they are determined to do so. As the Supreme Court noted in Sable, “[i]t may well be that there is no fail-safe method of guaranteeing that never will a minor be able to access the dial-a-porn system.” 109 S.Ct. at 2838. Nonetheless, the Court did not deem the desire to prevent “a few of the most enterprising and disobedient young people,” id., from securing access to such messages to be adequate justification for a statutory provision that had “the invalid effect of limiting the content of adult telephone conversations to that which is suitable for children.” Id. at 2839. We hold that because the means used, requirement of an access code, substantially burdens the First Amendment right of adults to access to protected materials and is not the least restrictive alternative to achieve the compelling end sought, the statute cannot survive the constitutional attack.

So, according to them, presenting such content to children ought to be left up to their parents, and laws shouldn't infringe on their right to do that.

I grew up in Italian-canadian households, so even as a little kid I got diluted wine at meals. As a teen I thought it was illegal so didn’t talk about it, then one day had a hotel room tossed by narcs who left empty handed yet left all the beer in the tub that we were obviously all drinking… only one of us was drinking age, and the room was in their name, so the narcs never even commented on it. In your home, in B.C. anyway, you have discretion about what the kids consume, as long as it isn’t abuse.

My parents would have beat my ass if I did something like that. That was a pretty good deterrent.

How would they find out if you put it back immediately after using?

kids these days

At our school (in the 90s), Duke Nukem 3D was installed on the entire computer lab. You could play death matches against everyone over LAN.
They even set up a keyboard shortcut to instantly kill the game, unmount the partition it was on, and drop you back to your working directory when the teacher walked up to your seat.

If you wanted class to get more interesting, you'd send a telnet message to the teacher's PC that looked like it was infected by a virus. Or launch the script that made all floppy disk drives' loading sounds play the Imperial March.

Parents have a way of knowing shit like that, believe me. It certainly wouldn't be a risk I'd needlessly take; that's for sure.

Actually, it's been proven to be a very ineffective deterrent in child psychology studies. It just teaches them to not do it when your actively present and try even harder to not get caught.

Plus the lifelong psychological scars of being assaulted by a figure you trusted to keep you safe from harm but those are a separate topic.

Parents aren't psychic

I'd just buy my child a VPN to avoid this shit.

Thats why you get better at it. I used to have photographic memory when I was doing stuff like that. Even putting items in same orientation.

True, but they can tell when their card is put back in the wrong pocket, or upside down, or other tiny clues that hint of someone messing with their stuff. Kids sometimes think parents know more than they do, or “have eyes in the back of their head,” simply because kids don’t pay attention to the same details their parents might. Their parents can deduce what happened from clues, clues that the kids don’t realize they left.

A very careful child might get away with it, but if their parents are equally careful they’ll probably notice something is amiss. I guess it all comes down to “your mileage may vary.”