What a disgrace. I wish all Hungarians Godspeed in getting rid of the Anti-EU idiots in power.

Hungary must change its government or leave the EU. The current government stance doesn't adhere to the European values, and the government alliances don't match with the remaining EU countries or EU as a whole.

I get that 1956 was a while ago, but still...

Viktor Orban is a hostile nation asset and should be treated accordingly.

I always hear Hungary fucking everything up, why not boot them from the union at this point? They clearly are an actor for a hostile nation, so there's no need to deal with their bullshit.

Uhh the hungarians put them in power ;_;

They are about as bright as the americans

There is no mechanism for removing a member state from the EU other than a voluntary exit.

And as long as Hungary is getting any kind of monetary benefits from the EU, which Orban can steal, he won't pull such a move.

Also his handlers in Moscow might find him more valuable in the EU than outside, so they likely would object to that.

Maybe we could suspend their membership removing privileges and voting rights, while Hungary is investigated for compliance of EU regulations on for instance their freedom of speech, courts and democracy.

Hungarians will have a new government in a few weeks. Ukraine just needs to outlast the election cycle.

I'm betting a mechanism could be created. It hasn't happened because Germany and France don't want it to, yet. That could change.

Any EU decision must be unanimous, though.

With allies like Hungary, who needs enemies?

1. I truly hope so, but..

2. it might turn out to be just a little bit less horrible.

There's no such thing as 'must be'. There's only as much as the member states will put up with. If the cost exceeds the value, it will get changed, along with any rules that supposedly prevent it. The only thing the rules do is set a higher cost.

removing privileges and voting rights, while Hungary is investigated for compliance of EU regulations

It's not that easy. This can be abused. Countries joined because the EU had limited power.

The US has broken the power of its states by threatening to withhold federal funding. The EU is starting to copy that. How does the EU make sure that we don't copy Trump, too?

If you can't get rid of a EU member all other members need to quit the EU and found a new one, without said member 🤔

I am pretty sure Ukraine can last 40 days until the next election.

False equivalence. EU is not controlled by a single president, for such actions there would have to be a near unanimous agreement among the other member states.
So the comparison would be if for instance 45 states agreed to take away privileges from one state in USA, instead of just 1 president, that may not even have won by a majority vote.

There's a difference between a decision made in a democracy that respect minorities (EU), and a decision made by a president that is granted excessive powers in a dysfunctional democracy.

That's how the US started. Still, legally, the president cannot change laws. It was normalized under Obama to get around this with executive orders.

It's a development. If we step on that slippery slope, we should know in advance that we stop before it is too late. And above all, we should not assume that it can't happen in the EU.

Obama made the least number of executive orders of any president for more than a century. So I seriously doubt he normalized them in any regard.

Also a slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

In my anecdotal experience I think it’s somewhat true for the older generation, but I’ve seen initiatives and protests of the younger generation, more progressive generation that are absolutely pro-EU - despite the blatant anti-EU propaganda that can be seen on almost any street corner when traveling through Hungary.

When the initial step is not demonstrably likely to result in the claimed effects, this is called the slippery slope fallacy.

The EU was created as an economic union with the intention to create a political union. It's a slippery slope by design.

Obama made the least number of executive orders

Interesting. I only remember democrats arguing that Obama had to use the orders because republicans were blocking congress.

why do they still keep hungary in the eu? why not add belarus too while they are at it. Clearly hungary is aligned with russia more, so isnt keeping them around kind of a security risk too?

That's just not true.

Starting a new EU isn't really feasible either since it'll be the "old" EU who holds all the trade-deals and other agreements/contracts.

If the old EU only comprises of Hungary, the new EU would get just the same trade deals within a day, I reckon.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2017/01/23/obama-executive-orders/

Obama issued fewer executive orders on average than any president since Cleveland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Cleveland

Stephen Grover Cleveland (March 18, 1837 – June 24, 1908) was the 22nd and 24th president of the United States, serving from 1885 to 1889 and from 1893 to 1897.

Still need to negotiate and sign deals. It's not a quick process and some counties might want to change some things.

All in all it'll be very complicated and messy. Not really realistic tbh, but a fun thought experiment.

Then clearly one must be made in order to handle this type of sabotage from a union members.

I fell for that propaganda. The executive orders were a talking point, I looked it up. Thanks for all the links.

However, that only changes the extend to which democrats have been digging their own grave. The EU still doesn't convince me that we are not on the same trajectory towards a totalitarian government as the US. The dishonesty about surveillance alone lets me believe that the EU shouldn't get too much power to economically force countries.

The EU still doesn’t convince me that we are not on the same trajectory

It's OK to be vigilant, but it shouldn't stop us from doing something that is necessary. And as I see it, it is necessary to put Hungary and Slovakia on pause.
Because they are actively working against clear EU interests, and they are working against democracy. And that is decidedly against the ideals of EU, they are also working against human rights which is also contrary to the regulation of EU.
If this was the USA, the Hungarian and Slovakian governments could probably be charged with treason!
That member countries work withing EU regulation which include human rights is a requirement! Not an option!
This is way way more than just political disagreement, Slovakia and Hungary are working openly for the enemy.

None of us want EU to become a totalitarian shithole, but failing to observe and uphold the rules, is EXACTLY what caused it for USA.
So as I see it, you are viewing this whole scenario upside down. Failing to act against totalitarianism rising in EU like in Hungary, is what will increase the risk of EU becoming more totalitarian. We need to act against it, and your slippery slope argument, that upholding Hungary to what they agreed to when becoming members, has no basis in the political facts.

However warning against totalitarianism is a VERY valid warning. You just seem to confuse how to stop it, with making it worse.

Can you elaborate?

Several of the claims made by your paywalled article are just uncritical repetitions of misinformation peddled by the Orbán government.

Magyar is not perfect, but IDK why the FUD

Nobody is perfect and I don't expect any politician to be. He's for sure better than Orban and I would definitely vote for him if I was Hungarian, because I do believe in avoiding greater evils. That said, his positions on Ukraine or EU integration are far from ideal.

The article is worth looking for a paywall remover ;)

Because they are actively working against clear EU interests

Which could be good if the EU works for its elite and not its citizens.

and they are working against democracy.

In which way? They have rules for media ownership that give Orban control but also prevents the usual foreign influence to an extend. Is there a clear threat? I think there is a grey zone that depends on which team one supports.

And that is decidedly against the ideals of EU,

Are the ideals of the EU the same as the EU? I fear that people fight for the ideals 'abroad' while the EU takes away their freedom at home.

they are also working against human rights

In that regard, 'they' could also reference the EU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Hungary

To me the human trafficking stands out but otherwise it looks to me like the usual hybrid war where marginalized groups are used to change the ruling class.

The Hungarian government has been accused by Human Rights Watch of circumventing the separation of powers and governing through an increasingly powerful executive.

Which is funny because the EU is using the commission's executive power to shut down media with Russian influence without a trial.

https://feddit.org/post/26084654

They still value the EU funds they get to improve their economy...

Please take it from a Hungarian, you don't know how bad is it in there.

He is for tighter EU integration, and he is wishy-washy on Ukraine because he's being called "Pete Ukrainian, the puppet of Brussels and Zelenskyy" by all radio channels, all but one TV channels, 70% of all billboards, every state news broadcast, every local newspaper and so on basically every 30 minutes for the past 2 years.

There is total media capture in Hungary by the government, and you can't beat that if you let them dictate the topic of the day. The government wants the election to be about Ukraine and geopolitical 4D chess, Magyar wants it to be about rich people raping orphans and the total collapse of state services.

So we don't talk about Ukraine. It fucking sucks. We also don't talk about a lot of other very important topics.

It can still be unanimous among the rest of the nations to be deemed legitimate.

Freedom of association encompasses both an individual's right to join or leave groups voluntarily, the right of the group to take collective action to pursue the interests of its members, and the right of an association to accept or decline membership based on certain criteria. It can be described as the right of a person coming together with other individuals to collectively express, promote, pursue and/or defend common interests.[1]

Freedom of association is both an individual right and a collective right, guaranteed by all modern and democratic legal systems, including the United States Bill of Rights, article 11 of the European Convention on Human Rights, section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and international law, including articles 20 and 23 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and article 22 of International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. The Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work by the International Labour Organization also ensures these rights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_association

Hungary is undermining the EU at every turn, if the rest of the membership wish to boot them out I think it would be quite easy for them to write up a compelling case for how and why.