Just noticed nobody had corrected you on this. It was Deceptichum who placed a Swastika onto an icon of the FHF, not Luminous.

Oh, thank you.

Constant, really?

I would be willing to retract the word choice. Something along the lines of being problematic to the admins of LW to not want to have to deal with them?

Ironically the Swastika coming from a second person besides Luminous helps to illustrate that point, where it was not just a single person, even an admin. Of course, I am not an admin myself, so all I am really saying is that it seems believable to me that the LW is stressed out of their gourd by all the attacks from people saying that they want to kill them. It makes sense to me to want to block them, without having to to through each community one-by-one. Moreover, then subsequently having to constantly maintain that as new ones emerge.

Death threats have that effect upon people. Sometimes the recipients simply... get tired of receiving them?

Ironically the Swastika coming from a second person besides Luminous helps to illustrate that point, where it was not just a single person, even an admin.

Not really, because they were from another instance.

Okay I need to catch up with this new info, but at worst it seems irrelevant, and at best increases the stress on the admin team to constantly often receive actual irl death threats that people would like to murder them.

Luminous for instance (a) called MrKaplan a Zionist, and (b) said death to all such, and therefore (c) since by transitivity with A->B and B->C, and given both are true plus A is true, then we can infer that C is true as well, i.e. Luminous wishes death upon MrKaplan (among MANY others). It's fairly clear? Even though buried in the modlog, and regardless of whether MrKaplan actually is what he has been called here or not.

Mr Kaplan's response after that is on him, but it is worth noting that he received a real actual death threat levied in his direction by an admin of an instance. Instances are not "entitled" to be federated with anyone at all - it happens at the discretion of the recipient.

but it is worth noting that he received a real actual death threat levied in his direction by an admin of an instance

No, he didn't.

@Samskara @mrdown Supporting the existence of Israel and not the war in Gaza at the same time is like supporting peace but refusing to stop weapons production. You have to choose.

As a Jewish person I think you should absolutely consider defederating from those instances. They platform and allow actual antisemitic people. They enable and encourage people calling for the death of Israelis. They are a bad place and no decent instance should associate with them.

Wow, thanks for providing this!

If that really is a list of "worst offences" it really is very mild compared to the explicit calls for violence I see every day in the fediverse.

If you want that, lemmy.zip, lemmy.today of piefed.zip may be better instances for you.

The Jewish people having a homeland where we are safe is not bad. Saying it is is antisemitic as fuck. Jewish people are oppressed and in danger all over the world. We deserve a home to feel safe in.

The home you want was stolen from someone else. Palestinians deserve their land and to not be genocided by 20th century colonisers.

Jewish people live in safety all over the world, far more safety than in a country that routinely puts it citizens in harms way via committing wars of conquest and slaughter.

It's filled with antisemitic users. Who use anti-Zionism to cover up their blatant antisemitic slanting.

Threatening people for being in favor of Israel isn't acceptable and I would say it is antisemitic too. We deserve the right to have a safe homeland which we've never had before. These idiots wish to take it away from us so we won't be safe anymore.

Committing genocide against Palestinians, invading Lebanon, bombing Syria, and murdering Iranians isn’t acceptable.

No one deserves to steal others land.

Zionism is an antisemitic belief.

I'm glad that you acknowledge the horrific acts Hamas is guilty of. So many people on Lemmy are in straight up denial or even support of Hamas' violence. It is disturbing.

It was our ancestral home which was stolen from us after centuries of antisemitic violence.

No one deserves to steal others land.

I agree. Israel was our home long before the arabs took it from us. No one should steal land from others.

You just showcased exactly what I am talking about 🙄

And before that someone else lived there. Something that happened thousands of years ago does not matter in this day and age.

Defederating violent antisemites is 100% resonable. You cannot call for violence against people for perceived Zionism. Instance admins included.

So give the land back to the Natufian Culture if you care about ancestral claims so much.

You conflate criticism of Israel and Zionism with antisemitism, that in itself is literally antisemitic.

Antizionism is not antisemitism and never will be.

So ban that user, you don't need to defederate an entire instance over it even if they are an admin (unless they use their admin privileges to circumvent the ban). And they're not even an admin anymore

dbzer0 admin policy supports and encouages this behavior. That is why they must be defederated. Their instance policy promotes antisemitic violence.

I'm not convinced that's true

Lemmy.org is a trolls instance, with unvetted user signups. You are obviously a fake account pushing a single agenda, and should be banned.

That's fine, but zionism is not only that. The problem is kicking out everybody else and/or stripping them off the rights you afford yourselves. If zionism only meant "Jews move to places they feel safe" nobody would have a problem

It is antisemitic people who have a problem with Jews being safe.

I don't have a problem with that, I just told you. Go troll someone else

Antisemitism is not the same as antizionism bro

I don't agree. I don't think people should have usernames of the form "kill all [certain type of people]".

If someone condemns Israel's actions against Palestinians then okay. But I don't think it's right to call for the deaths of people you disagree with. Even the worst criminals should arguably not be killed with the death penalty, but instead imprisoned for life.

So Lemmy.world is going to defed Lemmy.ml?

You cannot be pro-Palestine and support Israel’s existence on their land.

If Zionists want to start a country in Antartica or something go for it, I’ll support that. But to steal other people’s homes for their own lebensraum is evil.

This kind of all or nothing thinking makes you unable to build political alliances.

supporting peace but refusing to stop weapons production

That’s a very reasonable way of thinking though. So vis pacem para bellum.

Weapons are needed to be able to defend yourself against aggression.

Do you think the allies should have stopped all weapons production after WW2? Or do you think the war would not have happened if Hamas didn’t have weapons?

During an active military conflict, killing isn't applying the death penalty just for disagreeing with someone, it's typically the only remotely viable way to stop them committing whatever act they're in the middle of. When that act is genocide, killing them is almost universally the only moral action as anything else, even if it still stopped them, would take longer and in doing so let more genocide happen.

If they've been stopped by other means, e.g. economic sanctions make genocide too expensive to continue, then many genocidal acts carry the death penalty under international law. That's ethically dubious, but it's far from the biggest problem with anti-genocide law given that it's blatently not actually preventing genocide. If the username were just apply international law to zionists, then it'd still be promoting killing people.

It's also misleading to reduce zionists to certain type of people, as it conjoures up ideas based on inherent identity that are obviously bad to persecute before more directly comparable types of people like murder enthusiasts actively committing murders and refusing to stop despite pressure to. No reasonable person would say armed police were unjustified in shooting someone who was stabbing someone else after they'd been already told to drop their weapon. Not all zionists are actively killing people, but they are all calling for it to be allowed to continue, otherwise they inherently wouldn't be zionists.

Surely it isn't necessarily true that every single zionist supports bombing Gaza. "Zionist" apparently means:

someone who belongs to or supports a political movement that had as its original aim the creation of a country for Jewish people, and that now supports the state of Israel

Surely some people within that definition support the existence of Palestine alongside Israel, and they oppose any harm done to Palestinian civilians. For example there is an Israeli charity, B'Tselem, which apparently supports Palestinian rights, although I don't know much about them.

Supporting the state of Israel, at a time when it is actively committing a genocide, is supporting the genocide. Genocide should be a red line that forces people to stop supporting its perpetrators, and anyone who doesn't withdraw support once a genocide starts must be, on some level, okay with it.

Existing within a state doesn't automatically imply support for it. Most people have at least something they want their state to stop doing, and that can and does include existing. It's hard to say that a charity issuing statements that Israel is an "apartheid regime", "no longer a democracy" and "committing genocide" supports the state of Israel.

There are also plenty of people who, if asked, would say they support the state of Israel, but wouldn't support genocide, and not see that as contradictory because they're under the impression that Israel isn't committing a genocide. What they're supporting isn't the state of Israel, it's a hypothetical alternative state of Israel that doesn't exist. If (pretending for a moment that the USS Enterprise wasn't decommissioned in 2017 and was currently in the Strait of Hormuz) someone who mistakenly believed the United Federation of Planets was real expressed support after hearing in the news that the USS Enterprise had fired on other ships, it'd be most reasonable to just ignore them rather than assuming their opinion of their imaginary state was relevant to what their opinion of the real United States would be.

There are probably people who support the existence of Israel without supporting what Bibi and his government have done. Opposition politicians in Israel, for example.

Surely in any country there will be people (such as opposition politicians and activists) who oppose the current government's actions, without wanting the state itself to be dissolved. Even in very authoritarian countries like North Korea there might be such people, although of course they would have to keep their views private, due to near-certain persecution otherwise.

Ya, Kaplan needs to be removed from his admin/mod duties ASAP. He sees lemmy.world has his personal and private property and thinks he can do whatever he wishes. That is not what a community is about.

He is the typical reddit mod that we all hate. That is one of the reasons why we are on lemmy rather than on reddit. And yet, we are letting it happen here again? Fuck no. We need to be on the look out and stop such things as soon as possible, before they become too big to deal with.

He's not the only one

Question: What alternatives do you recommend compared to Lemmy.world?

Oh there are a bunch of great ones if you wanna stay on Lemmy, and I do recommend staying on Lemmy at the moment. At least until a De-Rimu'd fork of Piefed is available. He's been having... a time lately and that time seems to involve a lot of misunderstandings at best or outright misinformation at worst. Combine that with weaponizing his platform... eh.

For Lemmy, Dbzer0 is a good one, as proven by the fact that they have handled this with more grace than anyone else at the LW team. Quok.ka (I'm probably fucking up where the period is or missing a letter) is also a solid one with great admins. Blahaj.zone has really protective admins if you're queer and tired of dealing with bigots. Those admins tend to be a wall that deals with a ton of shit and deserve all the praise for the crap they see to protect others from. I mean all admins do but them especially with the level of bigotry. Lemy.lol just had cm0002 take over so that'll be a good spot for memes, why I started posting there recently. Lemmy.ca seems to be pretty reasonable.

I do not personally recommend lemmy.ml but I don't condemn those who use it or the admins. Just personal differences which is how lemmy be. Startrek.website has actively abusive admins and wouldn't recommend there either. Hexbear is.... hexbear.

I'm sure there are others off hand but my brain is currently a soup