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BBC leaves out a small detail
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geneva_convenience lemmy.ml geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-01-25
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123   Original
Lumidaub feddit.org Lumidaub@feddit.org
Joined: 2024-11-21
#2 · Quote Reply

Is that worse than if he had raped her for being Sikh?

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geneva_convenience Moderator geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-01-25
#3 · (edited) Quote Reply

Is that worse than if he had raped her for being Sikh?

Not if he did it because she was Sikh. In this case the Sikh woman wasn't being raped because she was a woman, but because the rapist thought she was a Muslim.

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Lumidaub feddit.org Lumidaub@feddit.org
Joined: 2024-11-21
#4 · Quote Reply

Not if he did it because she was Sikh. In this case the Sikh woman wasn't being raped because she was a woman, but because the rapist thought she was a Muslim.

I'm confused. Which reason for raping her would you prefer?

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geneva_convenience Moderator geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-01-25
#5 · Quote Reply

I'm confused. Which reason for raping her would you prefer?

Since you're a Fedditor try replacing the word Muslim with Jew and suddenly you'll get it.

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Lumidaub feddit.org Lumidaub@feddit.org
Joined: 2024-11-21
#6 · Quote Reply

Since you're a Fedditor try replacing the word Muslim with Jew and suddenly you'll get it.

Sorry, that changes nothing.

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geneva_convenience Moderator geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-01-25
#7 · Quote Reply

Sorry, that changes nothing.

Let's say someone was raping women specifically because the woman was a white Christian, does that work?

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Lumidaub feddit.org Lumidaub@feddit.org
Joined: 2024-11-21
#8 · Quote Reply

Let's say someone was raping women specifically because the woman was a white Christian, does that work?

No? What are you even saying?

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geneva_convenience Moderator geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-01-25
#9 · Quote Reply

No? What are you even saying?

Using rape as a targeted tool of terrorism is not the same as random rape.

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Lumidaub feddit.org Lumidaub@feddit.org
Joined: 2024-11-21
#10 · (edited) Quote Reply

Using rape as a targeted tool of terrorism is not the same as random rape.

Yes. And?

Edit: admittedly, I was snarky until now, but now I'm genuinely confused because now it honestly sounds as if you're saying that only the information that he was mistaken about her religious beliefs makes it racist. What the fuck does it matter what he thought? He raped her because she's different from him. The fact that he's also even stupider than your average racist is nice to know but changes nothing about what he did.

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geneva_convenience Moderator geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-01-25
#11 · Quote Reply

Yes. And? Edit: admittedly, I was snarky until now, but now I'm genuinely confused because now it honestly sounds as if you're saying that only the information that he was mistaken about her religious beliefs makes it racist. What the fuck does it matter what he thought? He raped her because she's different from him. The fact that he's also even stupider than your average racist is nice to know...

Rape generally happens by sexual degenerates not as a means of terrorism to get some perceived vengeance against a minority group.

The BBC leaving out the reason why the man raped the woman is an an incredibly important omission.

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Lumidaub feddit.org Lumidaub@feddit.org
Joined: 2024-11-21
#12 · Quote Reply

Rape generally happens by sexual degenerates not as a means of terrorism to get some perceived vengeance against a minority group. The BBC leaving out the reason why the man raped the woman is an an incredibly important omission.

religiously aggravated rape

racially abused

On top of these explicit phrases, even just the fact that they mention her religion is clue enough that there's a racist component.

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RiverRock lemmy.ml RiverRock@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2025-11-23
#13 · (edited) Quote Reply

Yes. And? Edit: admittedly, I was snarky until now, but now I'm genuinely confused because now it honestly sounds as if you're saying that only the information that he was mistaken about her religious beliefs makes it racist. What the fuck does it matter what he thought? He raped her because she's different from him. The fact that he's also even stupider than your average racist is nice to know...

By leaving out the rapist's motive, the BBC and the rest of the British media are trying to avoid being implicated in the consequences of the Islamophobia they've spent years spreading. That's why this is noteworthy. They're playing dumb to cover their asses

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geneva_convenience Moderator geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-01-25
#14 · Quote Reply

religiously aggravated rape racially abused On top of these explicit phrases, even just the fact that they mention her religion is clue enough that there's a racist component.

The BBC leaving out the reason why the man raped the woman is an an incredibly important omission.

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Lumidaub feddit.org Lumidaub@feddit.org
Joined: 2024-11-21
#15 · Quote Reply

The BBC leaving out the reason why the man raped the woman is an an incredibly important omission.

It's racism. That's the reason. It's mentioned.

It's also headlines. I get that "most people don't read past the headline" but I struggle to come up with a way to include the entire context in a headline.

And of course, if you're not actively looking for reasons why the BBC is evil, as I am, the fact that he was mistaken is a minor detail.

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geneva_convenience Moderator geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-01-25
#16 · Quote Reply

It's racism. That's the reason. It's mentioned. It's also headlines. I get that "most people don't read past the headline" but I struggle to come up with a way to include the entire context in a headline. And of course, if you're not actively looking for reasons why the BBC is evil, as I am, the fact that he was mistaken is a minor detail.

Racism against which group is mentioned?

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Lumidaub feddit.org Lumidaub@feddit.org
Joined: 2024-11-21
#17 · Quote Reply

Racism against which group is mentioned?

Are you honestly saying that matters?

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geneva_convenience Moderator geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-01-25
#18 · Quote Reply

Are you honestly saying that matters?

Yes

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AlfalFaFail lemmy.ml AlfalFaFail@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2025-03-01
#19 · (edited) Quote Reply

Is that worse than if he had raped her for being Sikh?
  1. A perpetrator targets a victim based on perceived religious markers, erroneously believing the victim belongs to a specific group (in this case, Muslim).
  2. The attack is fueled by specific anti-Muslim rhetoric and slurs, even though the victim is actually Sikh.
  3. Media coverage highlights the victim’s true identity (Sikh) but omits the perpetrator's specific intent (Islamophobia).
  4. By focusing only on the victim's identity, the report frames the event as an attack on a Sikh person rather than an act of Islamophobic violence.
  5. Omitting the perpetrator's actual intent protects the specific hateful narrative from being challenged or held accountable in the public square.
  6. This obscures the reality that anyone perceived as "other" can become a target of the same specific anti-Muslim prejudice.
  7. The specific ideology motivating the crime is left out of the public record, preventing society from recognizing and addressing the root cause of the violence.
  8. By failing to link the violence to the rhetoric that inspired it, news outlets maintain a "plausible deniability" that allows them to continue using inflammatory language which may predictably, yet indirectly, trigger future attacks.
  9. Labeling the attack as generic "racism" rather than specific Islamophobia allows the public to dismiss the event as the isolated outburst of a "madman" instead of recognizing it as a logical, extreme extension of a widespread social phenomenon.
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Lumidaub feddit.org Lumidaub@feddit.org
Joined: 2024-11-21
#20 · Quote Reply

A perpetrator targets a victim based on perceived religious markers, erroneously believing the victim belongs to a specific group (in this case, Muslim). The attack is fueled by specific anti-Muslim rhetoric and slurs, even though the victim is actually Sikh. Media coverage highlights the victim’s true identity (Sikh) but omits the perpetrator's specific intent (Islamophobia). By focusing only ...

It is fucking headlines.

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Sauvandu60 lemmy.ml Sauvandu60@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2023-07-10
#21 · Quote Reply

Degenerate rapist like him should get capital punishment.

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Bubbaonthebeach lemmy.ca Bubbaonthebeach@lemmy.ca
Joined: 2025-02-15
#22 · Quote Reply

Yes

I would only believe that if he specifically wouldn't rape a woman unless she was Muslim. I'm guessing Muslim was just his excuse for committing rape and he'd be a rapist anyway but looking for another excuse, racist or not. From a woman's point of view, I think rape is the more aggrieved factor here not the racism, although both factors exist.

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AlfalFaFail lemmy.ml AlfalFaFail@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2025-03-01
#23 · (edited) Quote Reply

It is fucking headlines.

Headlines are important. Many people only read the headlines. Do you know what community you're in?

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scholar lemmy.world scholar@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-09
#24 · Quote Reply

They did report that, it's in the article. It's right at the top of the page in the article.

During his attack in Walsall, John Ashby beat the woman - in her 20s - with a stick, while also shouting anti-Muslim abuse, wrongly believing her to be of that faith.

In a sentencing hearing at Birmingham Crown Court on Friday, the judge described the 32-year-old as a "deeply unpleasant racist and Islamophobe".

Ashby was told he would serve a minimum term of 14 years in prison.

Just read the article.

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scholar lemmy.world scholar@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-09
#25 · Quote Reply

A perpetrator targets a victim based on perceived religious markers, erroneously believing the victim belongs to a specific group (in this case, Muslim). The attack is fueled by specific anti-Muslim rhetoric and slurs, even though the victim is actually Sikh. Media coverage highlights the victim’s true identity (Sikh) but omits the perpetrator's specific intent (Islamophobia). By focusing only ...

The report is not the headline. Read the article.

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geneva_convenience Moderator geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-01-25
#26 · (edited) Quote Reply

They did report that, it's in the article. It's right at the top of the page in the article. During his attack in Walsall, John Ashby beat the woman - in her 20s - with a stick, while also shouting anti-Muslim abuse, wrongly believing her to be of that faith. In a sentencing hearing at Birmingham Crown Court on Friday, the judge described the 32-year-old as a "deeply unpleasant racist and Islam...

Nobody reads articles. People read headlines. Also the article doesn't explicitly connect the cause of the rape to her being Muslim.

https://www.psu.edu/news/research/story/social-media-users-probably-wont-read-beyond-headline-researchers-say

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orc girly lemmy.ml orc_princess@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2025-09-11
#27 · Quote Reply

I would only believe that if he specifically wouldn't rape a woman unless she was Muslim. I'm guessing Muslim was just his excuse for committing rape and he'd be a rapist anyway but looking for another excuse, racist or not. From a woman's point of view, I think rape is the more aggrieved factor here not the racism, although both factors exist.

This is how islamophobia operates, it's about racializing people you perceive as Muslim and in this way it's not different from other kinds of racism.

Neither of us knows this rapist personally, we can't know if he'd rape just about anyone, we do know he raped someone he mistook for a Muslim and based on his own words it seems racially motivated so it's extremely relevant to mention that.

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AlfalFaFail lemmy.ml AlfalFaFail@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2025-03-01
#28 · (edited) Quote Reply

The report is not the headline. Read the article.

What is your actual point? That headlines are separate from the reporting? Obviously. That people ought to read the reporting? Sure. But that's not the point. People don't. Editors know this. The headlines they write in aggregate shape society.

Is this really your takeaway of my post?

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scholar lemmy.world scholar@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-09
#29 · Quote Reply

What is your actual point? That headlines are separate from the reporting? Obviously. That people ought to read the reporting? Sure. But that's not the point. People don't. Editors know this. The headlines they write in aggregate shape society. Is this really your takeaway of my post?

My takeaway of your post is that you consider the perpetrator's intentions to be more important than his actions.

I suppose that's a valid take, but no more valid than the other way around.

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wpb lemmy.world wpb@lemmy.world
Joined: 2024-08-17
#30 · (edited) Quote Reply

They did report that, it's in the article. It's right at the top of the page in the article. During his attack in Walsall, John Ashby beat the woman - in her 20s - with a stick, while also shouting anti-Muslim abuse, wrongly believing her to be of that faith. In a sentencing hearing at Birmingham Crown Court on Friday, the judge described the 32-year-old as a "deeply unpleasant racist and Islam...

Sure, but imagine him raping someone and yelling "take that you filthy ". The word antisemitic would be in every headline and there would be questions in parliament. And to be clear, that's the appropriate reaction! It would be really nice if we could extend the privilege (apparently) to muslims as well.

And regarding the information being there when you read the article: Not everyone clicks through to read the article. In fact, I'll wager that the vast majority doesn't. As such, headlines have a huge impact on shaping people's perceived reality. It's why people have a problem with headlines voiced passively, like "bullet finds way into human's body". If you read the article you'll find that the bullet was fired by an Israeli soldier, and that the human was a 5 year old Palestinian, and that the body part the bullet ended up in was their skull, so all the information is there, so no bias, no lying, right?

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eletes sh.itjust.works eletes@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-06-12
#31 · Quote Reply

Is that worse than if he had raped her for being Sikh?

I think they're equally bad, the key point being that he committed a hate crime and there's no doubt about it.

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AlfalFaFail lemmy.ml AlfalFaFail@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2025-03-01
#32 · Quote Reply

My takeaway of your post is that you consider the perpetrator's intentions to be more important than his actions. I suppose that's a valid take, but no more valid than the other way around.

In the early 2000s, a young brown man across the country was severely beaten. His name happened to be the same as my brothers. Despite all this, I had uncles say stupid things like, "I'm Indian, not Arabic. This isn't a problem for me."

This is a post about how media outlets fail to report the horrors of anti-islamic crimes and their participation in creating an anti-islamic atmosphere in a community about manufactured consent. I don't know why you would infer that I would care less about the actual actions of the individual.

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scholar lemmy.world scholar@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-09
#33 · Quote Reply

In the early 2000s, a young brown man across the country was severely beaten. His name happened to be the same as my brothers. Despite all this, I had uncles say stupid things like, "I'm Indian, not Arabic. This isn't a problem for me." This is a post about how media outlets fail to report the horrors of anti-islamic crimes and their participation in creating an anti-islamic atmosphere in a com...

They reported on it. If you want to say that's not good enough and that they should have changed their headlines, then fine, but they literally just wrote an entire article about this case of a Sikh woman being attacked because her rapist thought she looked like a Muslim. An article the whole point of which was that someone wanted to rape a Muslim and found the first brown woman he could.

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AlfalFaFail lemmy.ml AlfalFaFail@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2025-03-01
#34 · (edited) Quote Reply

They reported on it. If you want to say that's not good enough and that they should have changed their headlines, then fine, but they literally just wrote an entire article about this case of a Sikh woman being attacked because her rapist thought she looked like a Muslim. An article the whole point of which was that someone wanted to rape a Muslim and found the first brown woman he could.

I thought your real take away was that I care more about the perpetrator 's intent than their action. So addressed that. Now we're back to headlines.

You're argument is, "People should read the report". I previously said many if, not most people, read just the headlines. The editors know this. The headlines shape the narrative.

You are focused on the individual reader's moral obligation to read more than the headlines.

Mine is focused on the editor's social obligation to frame headlines in a way that accurately reflect the article. By neglecting this, they end up shaping the social narrative.

I've said this previously. Have you spent any time with the fundamentals of how social narrative are created?

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