I'm just really feed up by your insanity of trying to erase boundaries between a party that wants to abolish elections and one that doesn't.

You don't actually care about Palestine if you promote the USA becoming a dictatorship and glassing whatever other fucking country its god-king-toddler feels has slighted him last.

I'm not even American bruh. I'm from Germany, where the consequences of underestimating fascists are only now being forgotten. Seems like y'all were a bit faster there.

Everything you said was regurgitated buzz words. And if you’re an American, dude Thats hilarious. You guys are the biggest terrorist, genocidal monsters, don’t try to throw the ball at someone else lol. Israel is just your proxy, this is all you guys. You’re causing this

The party doesn’t offer good candidates in primaries, either. The only people I’ve found actually worthy of my vote have been from the DSA, PSL, or Greens. This is why the Dems will never support ranked choice voting, it totally destroys their ability to siphon political power from the left.

Are you illiterate?

https://threadiverse.link/sh.itjust.works/comment/24668278

Again, are you illiterate?

https://threadiverse.link/sh.itjust.works/comment/24668272

Oh so you’re literally a non-American troll. Way to out yourself dumbass.

You're happy that the genocidal afrikaaner Musk got to kill hundreds of thousands, you're happy Netanyahu expanded into Lebanon, you're happy Trump got to give Netanyahu a fake ceasefire under which killings continue, you're happy innocent Iranians are dying, all so you can claim you're a good person for opposing Biden.

It's easier to pretend you're not responsible for assisting genocide than acknowledge it.

Trump's win made everything worse and you're happy that it is worse.

Then where's the real fucking reality grounded criticism, because when you're lying you're actually helping the enemy

Just one small problem with that take: hope you're not in one of the nations being glassed because god king Trump didn't get that one prize that one time.

Says who, Elon Musk's fanboy? You're happy that the deaths are spread out to more people now?

Tell me who was president for all but 27 days of 2025 you illiterate moron

The deaths WERE HIGHER IN THE YEAR TRUMP TOOK POWER

did you not think anybody would check your claims???

Have you lost the box?

Not at all.

I did not vote for Donald, but if it makes you feel better to presume, go for it. It doesn't matter so you may as well find a coping mechanism.

Those people will only realize that they've fucked up when the fascists they didn't vote against start coming for their privileged asses.

And there we have it, you're a fucking accelerationist. The dumbest of the dumb. You're actively working against your own interests because you believe the people will wake up before everything you hold dear has crumbled to ashes in your hands.

I'm pretty sure you'll call the students who protested centrists for not being successful enough too

Imagine being so disingenuous that you actually believe (or at least want others to think you do) that we just didn't know whether Trump would be worse than Harris on Palestine, Iran, and every other fucking thing possible for that matter. I never used to hold much creedence with the whole paid russian or chinese actors angle, even back in 2016. It is becoming more and more difficult to rationally explain how anybody actually living in the US could, with a straight face, make equivalency arguments between Trump and Clinton, Biden, or Harris. It does, however, seem like a perfectly rational act for foreign actors who just want to accelerate their replacement of the US as hegemon to take.

If you don't like genocide, it means you support genocide - the genocide wing of the democratic party.

Centrists blocked progress and supported genocide. Centrists have never been more successful at the only things centrists are for.

While you and I can look at this and go “Wow, that’s not logical, she’s way better than Trump”, the Democratic campaign should have had political scientists and psychologists that knew about this well-documented phenomenon. I imagine they did, and ignored it, because siding against Israel would’ve cost money.

At the very least maybe the Dem party should have been smart enough lie publically that they would censor Israel and reevaluate US support of Israel (even if they wouldn't actually follow through). It's almost like losing is preferable to risking any AIPAC $.

Did you warn anybody a win for Trump would make things worse? Did you do anything at all but just complain? Were you one of the people who said Trump couldn't make it worse?

Because it sounds like you're coping and projecting it, because maybe you could've had a president that wouldn't have attacked Iran and that could've been reasoned with, and maybe even Trump's convictions would've sent him to jail, but no, ideological purity was so much more important

You can see with your own eyes the parties are objectively not the same, as one of them supports Israel in killing innocent people in Iran while Israel expands their genocide to Lebanon too, but you absolutely refuse to acknowledge anything has changed

You’re trying to convince people to stop taking action to oppose evil, to settle for just complaining about it.

I'm trying to get people to kick the worthless genocidal shit you worship to the curb where they belong. I advocate for the honest primaries you don't want because dishonest primaries are the only thing keeping your genocidal shit in office where you want anyone who wants to murder Palestinian children for your entertainment.

The gall to ignore the deaths of Iranian civilians while saying this

It must really bother you that you have to pretend that you don't love it.

How many times are pro-genocide fash-lite centrists going to ignore that I voted for their garbage pro-genocide candidate?

I voted for Harris. None of you care who anyone voted for. You just want everyone to shut up about the genocide that is the only thing centrists have ever actually fought for.

Genocide was a losing issue. The left warned you and you didn't listen. Or you did and went ahead anyway because centrists are fine with trump but not with telling netanyahu no.

Maybe if democrats credibly supported something other than genocide, more people would have voted against him.

Or, maybe if she had been unequivocally anti-genocide or even anti-funding Israel without checks or guarantees from Israel first, she would have lost even worse. Sad to think about, but close to 1/3 of the US is irredeemable deplorables who have been shamelessly propagandized for over 40 years by hate media. Your own argument seems to distill down to everyone is a genocider. Can you really say that she wouldn't have lost more votes than she gained, and that the purity testers wouldn't have just moved on to a different issue they had with her and still sat out on election day?

It’s goddamn infuriating. I’ve been doing this shit for 30 years, man. Holding my nose, voting for the centrist, because that’s where the party was, and that was my only option. Like look at a poll, dipshits. The vast majority of the party want to stop supporting genocide. The left is your ethical base. Start listening to us.

Aye, how do people not remember how much momentum Walz's "weird" carried, and how much the 'planners' screamed and shouted and made all of the effective tactics stop?

That's just one big problem with your take.

Except for being weak on Gaza, all of the democrats' other policies were actually more popular and winning.

The problem is media lied and said their accomplishments belonged to Trump and that Trump's failures belonged to them. He claimed he would deliver on the economy when his plan was to ruin it.

It's bizarre to see people decide that the policies were unpopular when they always won as long as you removed the name from them. People wanted what democrats promised but trusted Trump would be the one who could deliver on the promises. That was all down due to lies and propaganda.

The big error made by Democrats is falling behind on outreach, and letting the corporate wing set the tone (fucking political consultants pushing them to "play nice"), all the other bullshit like telling them "they should've focused on the economy" is propaganda because the already did that and media refused to report on it

And now Trump no longer has people who can insulate him from consequences because he made too many much too big fuckups, so now average people know he actually never were a good businessman and never could deliver. But people are still not connecting the dots and directing the blame to the people who pushed the lies.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/11/democrats-defined-progressive-issues/680810/

https://www.levyinstitute.org/publications/trump-wins-while-americans-vote-for-progressive-policies/

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/majority-of-americans-support-progressive-policies-such-as-paid-maternity-leave-free-college.html

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/07/politics/democratic-positions-majority

https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2022/12/13/progressive-issues-are-popular-issues/

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/power-dressing-progressive-economic-policies-conservative-clothes

https://www.forwardky.com/poll-voters-love-progressive-policies-despite-trump-win-tag-analysis/

It's the AI. 20 = 10 in new math. Soon we'll have no kids left behind. All will age and despair!

They will say "No Kings" and issue blanket pardons to the guilty.

You are living neck deep in misinformation. A slave to your algorithm.

The vast majority of the party want to stop supporting genocide. The left is your ethical base. Start listening to us.

Centrists don't want to. They spent all this time moving to the right to get here.

Sad to think about, but close to 1/3 of the US is irredeemable deplorables who have been shamelessly propagandized for over 40 years by hate media.

They aren't ever going to vote for a democrat. They are not your audience, they are not your voters, and no matter how much you support genocide, unless you support it harder than trump, none of them will vote for you. Not fucking one.

Your own argument seems to distill down to everyone is a genocider.

Well, considering how many of you are still carrying water for a genocidal candidate more than a year after the election, I'm disappointed to say that too many members of the democratic party support genocide and nothing else.

Can you really say that she wouldn’t have lost more votes than she gained

I think that's the very reason that the party won't release its postmortem on the election.

purity testers

All this has ever meant is "I have no standards and I expect you to abandon yours."

You are living neck deep in misinformation.

Yes, I'm interacting with you. Harris is not a progressive.

The fuck are you talking about

Idk who you're referring to with “you”, I'm a German anarchist.

A lot of people in this thread seem to be happy about US-Americans getting humbled by things going down the drain there currently.

I’m a German anarchist.

Who is preemptively gloating about the state oppressing people you don't like.

Nah, you're not authoritarian. You just want to punish others for thought crimes. You know, like Trump. Or Stalin. Or Hitler.

Keep digging ;)

Illiterate

Yes, and?

Something else to think about? If you voted third party or sat out, your hands aren't necessarily clean ofgenocide. Do you pay federal income tax?

I would argue that contributing thousands of unaccountable $ to the federal government which you know is going to engage in violence and empire building makes one much more morally culpable for US actions than a single vote for president in a single election.

Can those who think the moral action was to not vote at all or not vote D or R because that is support for genocide, but who pay federal income tax, care to explain how their hands are clean?

To bring it back to the trolley problem, it's like refusing to pull the lever because to do so would be to acknowledge that the entire exercise is ethical or otherwise valid, while forgetting to mention that you personally financed that specific trolley and stretch of track.

I suspect there a certain kind of person that is only interested in taking moral or ethical stands if the personal consequences for doing so are zero. How long do we think it would take for either major party to start begging the electorate to tell them how to behave if a significant majority of the populace decided today to stop going to work and to stop paying any taxes?

And I don't subscribe to the ideology of all or nothing. "Better to compromise all values than only some." Genocide wasn't on the ticket. Other issues were. If your deeply held conviction is that ICE and all this shit (including genocide) is better than the alternative, I think your priorities are fucked.

This isn't about shame, it's about trying to find a strategy for tackling this shit (liberalism, capitalism, fascism) effectively. We want the same thing, we just don't agree about the methods, that's what I'm trying to make a case about: Build progressive support from the ground up, where the stakes aren't as high, delay the dismantling of liberties and privacy that would make resistance and change harder, vote anti-fascist to buy time to organise resistance.

Ah, the dreaded playground insult. And a King of the Hill meme, no less. Not sure how I'll ever recover from that one.

It's okay buddy, you'll get me next time. At least you have that to look forward to.

Now keep digging!

You're losing and you know it, but you're too stupid to understand why

piefed already has reactions for “dis/like, dis/approve, a/vow” etc..
voting has always been a signal for “un/worth reading”

Who untaught tankie instances otherwise‽

The fuck are you on about?

I'm taking about how dangerous it is to be accelerationist instead of improving the chance for harm reduction at no cost.

Interesting, based on what I have ready from you I suspect you and I are in agreement on most everything since you did actually pull the lever for harm reduction even though it made you sick. It made me sick in 2016 and 2020 when I did it. Before 2016 I had proudly never voted for a R or D at the national level.

I intended to vote for Harris soley for harm reduction, but I had to go into the emergency room on election morning and wasn't released in time to vote. So, technically, I didn't vote for a genocider. By your own logic, my hands are clean, and you are the genocider.

Of course, I don't ascribe that logic to any of this. Absolutist, black and white, chimeric ethical or moral frameworks that can't withstand the real world and have ultimately harmful outcomes are a luxury, if not an indulgence. Harm reduction, mutual aid, compassion, that's what is left as real once you strip away all the bullshit.