I'm saying it's a shit pipe. A lot of young men are going to die alone and confused, and it's not even really their fault. The whole thing is a tragedy, with no clear solution that applies to everyone. My point is while you're correct in what you say, it's not constructive, and is probably making it worse. These guys are already suffering, their best shot is not being made fun of and maybe realizing they aren't getting attention anymore and need to change. More incels are created from hating on them, than probably would exist otherwise. It's team sports to everyone now. Nobody wants to change, everyone wants to be right. Incels don't scare me, so I don't go picking fights with them on the internet, because that's really what they want.

Just be careful, because not being able to have a single hobby without just accumulating more weirdos who want to fuck you is super annoying. If you make a real connection with someone, shoot your shot, but don't like join run club with an "anime dating sim" mentality.

You do have a point, but you've applied it to every aspect of all women and you sound short sighted. That was the theme of my previous post and you missed it. You've read what some women want you to read, and have reacted in a way that is advantageous to them and their goals. This does not extend to all women, like at all - it's not even possible ( you can't even explain how it works ). I know plenty of women that like to be approached, I know plenty that don't. People are always more interesting and diverse than what your ideologies can explain. You've put both feet in a bear trap and jumped my friend. You're so wrapped up in assumptions you've missed the forest for the trees, probably for someone else's gain. Whatever twitter handles you follow, or Manophere youtubers you listen to, it's not constructive to your individual experience in anyway that related to women. I'm sorry, it's just not. That means it's stupid, and you should try something else.

I think we're on the same page here. You might be confusing me with the other guy; I'm the one he was arguing with.

I don't personally think posting self-deprecating comments in a thread of guys joking about dying alone makes someone an incel. I think that's just a healthy outlet and to some extent a form of emotional support. Both things that are exceedingly rare, yet necessary, for men dealing with loneliness.

But what's unhealthy and destructive is shaming those guys for even thinking it's okay to gather and joke about a situation we feel we have in common, especially when it's a situation that's so prevalent (and documented) today.

It's not like we're going to 4chan or xitter to say depraved things about women. If there's any aggression in this thread, it's playful and directed inward.

At least, until Mr. Casa Nova crashed it to call us all incels for not being endowed with his superior ability to (as he phrases it) "convince women to hop on his dick" or "get his dick wet." Completely missing the point that no one here was asking for that.

Like that's literally the kinda of shit you hear in toxic masculinity circles. The kind of things he was saying belong in the manosphere "dating coach" grift, not an emotional support thread full of men saying "We've learned to be okay with dying alone because it may be our only option and we're not going to compromise our values by objectifying women just so we can feel like "real men™". So now we joke about it because that's what humans do when they're resigned to a certain fate."

My bad yeah

Ah yes. I'll go right back to the toxic right wing podcast of... Conan O'Brian.

Okay, I'll admit it was an overly broad generalization, and I shouldn't have called you a dumbass. So I'm sorry for that. I was a bit heated because the other commenter had me riled up.

But I'll start this by saying I don't follow any fucking twitter handles or manosphere youtubers. I'm chagrined that you would even assume that about me. You have me mispegged, and that's causing you to view everything I say through a lens where you're already making assumptions about the intent.

I've listened to the opinions of many women. I've read what they say online and in women's support spaces. Yes, that doesn't mean it represents the opinion of every woman, but to discount it entirely just because it can't be framed as an absolute would be the wrong approach.

The best conclusion one can draw is, that of the women who have expressed their opinions in formats that I have access to, the majority of them seem to agree on the "man versus bear" narrative. And if I, upon learning that, don't conclude "so I shouldn't approach women then," then I'd be in the wrong.

Even if there's a smaller percentage who think "But I want to be approached," the reality is, I can't read their mind, and I'm not going to guess. There's no way for me to spot "Oh this woman wants to be approached" from visual cues alone. So I'm going to err on the side of caution and treat every woman like she wants to be left alone.

Anything else and I'd be in the wrong. So if you really want to claim I'm being toxic and misogynist by literally going out of my way and changing my behavior based on what I've learned in order to make sure women feel more comfortable in public, then this is a really topsy turvy world and there would be no point in trying to comprehend something so self-contradictory.

A lot of these are just that, Narratives. No woman would jump into the arms of the bear, literally. Focusing on the details of wanting to be approached or not, it's playing to the whims of content creators and rage baiters. People are people. If you see an attractive woman, make a move, and move on. So much of this just melts away under scrutiny. It's only supposed to distract and serve the ad loops we're all trapped in, not us. It's not constructive, leave it behind.

But I don't want to make women feel uncomfortable. That's the core of the issue. If approaching them or treating them as a potential dating partner even might do that, then I won't do it. That's the sum of what I'm trying to say.

Is he the one who taught you to treat women as conquests instead of people, and to talk down to any guy who doesn't participate in that?

Bruh we're all uncomfortable. Pretty much most of the time. Don't rationalize or overthink it. You can't plan for when you'll make someone uncomfortable at the best of times.

Were some of them adopted? If not... How did you get the kids that didn't come from you?

The guys ITT actually like wallowing in self pity and pretending like they're happy. It's pretty sad actually.

Some of the genes.