Link: https://thespectaclemag.substack.com/p/the-french-people-are-burning-the

The lesson that France is currently teaching is one that applies far beyond its borders, and spectacle readers in Britain, in Ireland, in the United States, in every country where the same austerity and the same contempt and the same degradation of public services is being imposed by governments with no mandate and no answers, should be paying close attention. The French are demonstrating something that is easy to forget when you are watching from inside a system that has been designed to make organised resistance feel futile: the state does not respond to reason alone. It does not move because of petitions or polite letters or even electoral pressure, because all of those things can be absorbed, delayed, managed, and eventually forgotten. It responds to disruption, to the credible assertion that the country cannot function normally while its people are being ignored, and the French people have been making that assertion, with remarkable consistency and remarkable discipline, for weeks.
They let the ambulances through. They block the roads and then they open them for the fire trucks and then they close them again, because they understand that their anger is not directed at the people the state is also failing to protect. They have chosen their targets carefully, and their message is clear. The system that is telling you there is no money for schools spent billions on war. The government that is cutting your pension sent its children to private school. The state that fires tear gas at 14-year-olds is the same state that has an answer for every question except the ones that matter.

I worry that in the UK its the far right that is most likely to listen to that lesson. They are the only ones protesting where I live as I live in a Tory/reform council, they have already scattered broken glass across roads.

I feel your pain on a visceral level. No one on USA is taking the lesson.

Just like Jan 6ers in the US.

Because it's totally the same thing...

I was agreeing with the commenter that they fear in their country they worry it is most likely the far right who will hear this message.

Please don't associate Mélenchon with this, he has called numerous times not to engage in violence and has no connection with the people not listening to him

Sadly, I have to agree.

Setting fire to cultural heritage sites is over the line. It is akin to cultural genocide, in particular if a minority/other group is hit.

Human over building

Indeed. Violence reflected back at the powerful is the only thing that prompts real and lasting change.

George Floyd protesters set fire to Minneapolis police station as riots continue: https://youtu.be/p5w0v8XsI9I

George Floyd live updates: Minneapolis bans police chokeholds; 'Black Lives Matter' painted on streets by White House

I'm sure I could agree with them but they are helping the far-right by doing this without thinking. Please don't sabotage our plans for 2027

French genociding themselves? Explicitly pro fascism and state terrorism lemmy?

Imagine someone setting fire to your local, historic city hall, church, museum, or library.
That's not ok and removes a part of your identity.
Calling that bad isn't fascism. Having historic buildings and art isn't state terrorism.

Blowing up an teen hand by the police is fascism and state terrorism and worse than anything protesters would do. You are participating in the current propaganda campaign to delegitimize completely the protests . The same tactic was used during the protests against the Vietnam war

Hi, French here and I can testify from my own experience of what happened that day in Paris, I also have direct contact with other regions (Marseille, Corrèze or Bretagne).

You shouldn’t talk about “cultural genocide”. It’s inappropriate and misleading.

There are several layers to this riots but since the spectacle only retains “burning and looting” you should know that even this is really understandable. But you need to put apart your racist biases first.

There are many genocides happening right now.
I used that language to convey the danger of destroying and defacing culturally significant sites. Which they did to that one city hall, for example.

And like 99.99% of the people on the streets didn’t even vandalize anything or use any violence. The media shows all of the protesters violence and none of the police violence, this is then used by the state to instigate more police brutality.

Then they blame all the chaos on the Mélenchon left — the only party that actually wants to change the policies the people are protesting against, while they are the ones in charge, and thus responsible for all of this shit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide

Culticide exists, I didn't mean genocide. Sorry if that got lumped in. And I just wanted to raise awareness that cultural sites do in fact have a large value to the people and are not akin to burning down a big box store or housing. You are right to point out that we should moderate radicalizing substance posts more. And admirably constructive.

Given how sensitive lemmy is to that word i'd go with cultural murder instead. Yes the violence committed on both sides is inacceptable, and undermines the messages / negociations.

Whoever set fire to that building should spend the rest of their lives paying it back, because as it currently stands the whole population will. Even the nazis didn't go that far, but these looters respect nothing.

That's not quite accurate. The Nazis rise to power was accompanied by burning of historic buildings though who did it and why is in part debated. I agree with you otherwise.

yet it is still reactionary and expected. That is why macron was at a concert enjoying his damn self. They need to over throw their goverment. Not just riot.

let's not forget the videos of people trying to smash in windows while being protected by the police... nothing sus about that, why you ask?

The all or nothing, black and white thinking doesn't help either though. Most of the people online calling for violence are extremely unlikely to even get off their couch to figure out how these kinds of protests are organized. Violent revolution is brought on by a critical mass, but it's the boring organizational efforts and grassroots community building, the lawyers and public policy experts helping the vulnerable day in and day out thanklessly, that assemble the kindling and firewood piece by piece so you all can come in and strike the match. Don't discount those efforts because they're not sexy.

Violent revolution is brought on by a critical mass, but it's the boring organizational efforts and grassroots community building, the lawyers and public policy experts helping the vulnerable day in and day out thanklessly, that assemble the kindling and firewood piece by piece so you all can come in and strike the match. Don't discount those efforts because they're not sexy.

💯

I love riots. They remind the Elites who's really in charge, with the added message that it could always get worse.

If the midterms don't change American politics, we are sadly, very much headed for the same thing. Especially if Trump manages to "dissappear" Ilhan Omar. This country is on the precipice of tearing itself apart.

“They’ll exhaust themselves at some point” -them, basically.

Wait, Jan 6th?

Bunch of spectators at a gladiator event. What a circus.

the same state that has an answer for every question except the ones that matter.

That line hits so good. Idk what tf the US thinks they're dong when their fucking president is the one getting everyone else killed. They're killing their own even. FFS get off your high horse, stop pretending to be the good guys and fucking do something.

You either march in and remove them by force or do nothing, watching them continue to fuck everybody else for your inability to act on your convictions. Do something. Do something other than fucking watch. Do something other than complain and make up excuses. Do fucking something other than the same weak ass shit y'all have convinced yourself makes a difference and fucking ACT UP.

The French people are burning themselves since they are the state.

When the midterms go the way everyone knows it will and the fascists prevent the peaceful transfer of power once again, my plan is to march directly to the capital. Trunk full of bricks and gasoline.

It's not a coincidence that Israeli elections are in one week, and "Violent French Arabs" are a perfect scapegoat to drum up support at home for Netanyahu and his government of criminals.

It...really is a coincidence though, the riots are because France at this point is basically insolvent and is on the cusp of needing a potentially 2tr$ bailout when the EU can provide, at most, about 500b$ (and France is supposed to provide 20% of that emergency funding number)

France is very likely about to be the first G7 country to go tits up financially

Oh then I guess the vast rightwing conspiracy just decided to skip France?

C'mon.

If we go the way of france, I am quite certain that the utter depravity of the violence here will make Europeans go pale.

Damn, I only have the verifiable trend of France running a deficit since 1974, being charged some of the highest interest rates for borrowing amongst the G7 nations, and their government repeatedly collapsing over the last few years with two prime ministers being voted out in the same year leaving them completely unable to do anything

You have the vague feeling that The Jews are behind this. I mean if you really wanted to paint this as part of the greater Reichwing Billionaires attempting to run the G7 nations like kings you might have been able to even though that's got nothing to do with France failing to get its shit together since the 70's, but no you had to immediately make this Isreal pulling the strings.

You're right, your position is clearly more intellectually honest

I don't think "the jews" are behind you fucking asshole. I said the government of Israel, which is currently a cabal of literal fascist criminals.

And since those criminals are the people who (a) start this shit all over the world, (b) regularly use violence to interfere in every other country's internal politics, and (c ) very conveniently found their perfect Arab Boogeyman in this moment, right when they need one to rig another Israeli election? Yeah, it's them.

Take your "oh no you're blaming all jews" bullshit and blow it right out your ass.

AND fucking LOL at you claiming no, this is just the culmination of economics going back to 1974...that just happens to culiminate in the perfect outcome for the fascists, right when they need it. Total fucking coincidence.

Just LOL @ you being a cuck for fascists. Sit back in your chair and stroke it, I guess.

Oh please, "Isreal is behind all the bad things in the west" is not an honest belief in Isreal being a rogue state. It's "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" with extra steps

I fucking hate Bibi and think he'll be a lucky man if the worst thing that ever happens to him is he gets dragged before The Hague to answer for his crimes.

Whoa hold up. Where did "The Jews" come from here? Cuz the other guy said Israelis, specifically conservative Israelis, which would suggest Netanyahu and his ilk. Then you said the Jews. Those are two vastly different things. I don't know what you meant by that. Are you just trying to be intellectually dishonest about his argument? Or is this just really blatant racism from you? Or are you just a Zionist who thinks that Israel represents all Jews? All three seem super scummy.

Hiding behind the objectively true statement that "antizionism is not antisemitism" to spread conspiracies about Isreal as a state that could have been lifted directly from "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is cowardly antisemitism at worst and intellectually dishonest at best.

Isreal is a genocidal rogue state run by a fascist extremist government <- true statement, not antisemitic

France is experiencing riots because Isreal is behind it <- antisemitism masquerading as antizionism

This is why I don't understand the point of the riots. Every time famers in France get less money or more environmental rules, riots. Every time people are told you have to retire later, because the current system is going to collapse, riots. It's the goto move, but almost no structural changes are made. France needs to understand they can't maintain the current system.

You're probably with them to be honest. No one else defends that government this hard.

What part of implying i think unspeakable things should happen to Bibi for the crimes against humanity he's committing along with his government reads as a defense of the Israeli state to you?

Because I promise you I'd get a visit from some alphabet soup agents if I posted what I think should be done with him and his enablers

From where do you get this informations and numbers?

"The Jews" aren't related to the eviction of the first ministers. They were choosen by the president despite not having a majority at parlement, and they have choosen to force their view despite being in minority. It is a choice of the president to make parlement weak and to deny democratie. The president not being jew, it is not the jews.