Did you hear about the guy that robbed a bank just so he could get his cancer treatment for free in prison? No? Me neither because they don't give a fuck about you having cancer while in prison

Silly you, expecting consequences for the wealthy class in the USA.

No, you just haven't tried my cancer curing recipe of ginger, garlic, and neem leaves. If you tried it and it didn't work, you just didn't eat enough. Or maybe it was your bad vibes that spoiled the cure. /s

Oiled or dry?

Every Democrat with 2+ brain cells should be running his words as ads against him

You don't understand, people pay for insurance and then the insurance company gets the money!

Cruelty isn't condemned in 'Murica

It's celebrated

Because they see suffering as a zero-sum game

If their life is shitty, then the only way for their life to improve is to make the life of someone else even shittier

It's stupid and cruel

Quintessentially 'Murican

Especially because it's the backwards hicks who tend to be the least healthy

There's a part of me that would happily let them die as a result of their stupidity, but I believe even more strongly that universal health care should be universal

Let them opt out if they want to once it's explained to them that it's "socialised medicine" and is a leftist idea

They won't, because they're filthy hypocrites

It really is the "everyone" that annoys people. I've asked conservatives to explain to me how insurance works as a business model. They pretty quickly realize two things:

1. Monthly premiums of everyone cover the needs of anyone in need today. (Some seem to think it is like a bank account, but pretty quickly realize why that doesn't make sense. Framing it around car insurance instead of healthcare tends to help if they are struggling here.)

2. As a for profit business, they need to collect more in monthly premiums from each customer than they will provide that customer with benefits. Otherwise, the business is not profitable.

Once they understand these two facts, then they are ready to understand why government sponsored healthcare is optimal. It maximizes the number of people paying into the monthly premiums, while minimizing the profit margin because the government doesn't need to be run at a profit. Many disagree with that last point, but will usually be satisfied by phrasing it as "bringing in a minimal profit. Otherwise, we wouldn't want to be overtaxed, right?"

I can't help but feel it was likely taken out of context. Anyone got the full version?

I think all forced insurances must also provide a government alternative to keep the vultures humble

Once they understand these two facts, then they are ready to understand why government sponsored healthcare is optimal.

In my experience they'll understand the two facts but still arrive at the unwavering conclusion that it's still better than the government running it.

probably followed by something like "even the illegal dog-eating immigrants!"

Is it that hard to understand that in a society we have created to sustain and cooperate for the benefit of all, healthcare is something everyone should have? Like water, electricity, school, decent housing. If you want luxury items pay for them, but health as well as the other basics now in XXI century should never be a luxury, it should always be a human right.

There are people, who are afraid, free healthcare will lead to people not taking care of their health. That's how they tried to astroturf the "pro-paid healthcare" movement in Hungary.

Which is BS of course, expensive healthcare makes people skip on prevention which leads to worse health and more expensive treatments. You just have to look to the US to see that.

“Everyone” in Republican NewSpeak means “people you want to suffer, and people who still won’t actually get health care”. Like minorities, women needing abortions, or illegal immigrants.

With government helthcare there are also no "in network" and "out of network" doctors. You can simply just go to any fucking docktor you want and you don't have to worry if one of the people in the hospital is out of network and you suddenly have to pay thousands for something you had basically no control over.

This is in my opinion the biggest plus of government helthcare.

What about the.. trans immigrants

I didn't say I thought that.

Yeah, he is dumb, but this would be a whole another level...

Conservatives will gladly suffer and die if it means the vulnerable will suffer the same fate. Nothing brings a conservative more joy than causing harm to others.

Common misconception. You're paying for other people's healthcare, yes; plus the salaries of insurance agents, plus the commissions for insurance brokers, plus the bonuses for healthcare execs, plus the yacht money for healthcare investors, plus the bribe funds used by lobbyists, plus the apocalypse island money for the handful of people who own it all.

I'm probably forgetting a few. Like probably more being spend on private security now too for some reason.

in this economy?!

As evil as for-profit health insurance is, it's actually heavily regulated. These Christian coop schemes are not and can absolutely scam people and not pay out at all for reasons like not having evidence of adhering to a strict moral code (skipped church too many Sundays? Yeah that's a violation, coverage voided). And when they retroactively decide the person isn't Christlike enough there's little recourse for the patient.

The food companies who sell that processed food slop and the food regulatory commissions that allow it should be paying for people's healthcare. Don't tell me it's a choice. It's only a choice for people who can afford it, and nowadays most can't.

Feel like Lemmy is probably under at least some FBI surveillance.

I went to a surgery because I was bleeding from my ass. I was told it was covered. When I got here I was told it wasn't covered. The doctor said it would be. It wasn't, because the claim codes were in the wrong order. I should have never went into that surgery.

I've been on phone calls with the hospital, the insurance company, the doctor, and the hospital billing office (separate from the hospital and unable to communicate with it for some reason) for well over a year.

My insurance company assured me that it would be taken care of. They then closed the case and opened at least one other internal case where they say it's not being taken care of.

I pay over 10k out of my paycheck to cover my family. That's before we hit the 4k family deductible and still have to pay 20% on most services.

God bless the United States healthcare system.

They'll both make you cry though.

Trump Warns That if Kamala Harris Wins, ‘Everybody Gets Health Care’

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-kamala-harris-wins-everybody-gets-health-care-1235081328/

August 15, 2024

The people angry about healthcare being paid for don't currently have healthcare usually. Especially on the good liars, the look like total fools. Why you wouldn't want your family to be able to go to a doctor and not go bankrupt is beyond me. Wild timeline. Weird it's even an issue.

I doubt your issue is unique in regards to fighting this crap. This is an issue with the insurance complex, not having it to begin with. Healthcare in USA is atrocious.

Oh, no. How could they possibly dare?...

Here's the part I don't understand.

In 2025, approximately 22 million Americans received subsidies through the Affordable Care Act Marketplace to help pay for their health insurance. That's millions of working Americans who depend on these subsidies to afford coverage.

So who exactly is this statement supposed to appeal to? A significant number of Trump's own constituents rely on healthcare.gov to purchase their health insurance. Without those subsidies, many of them are going to face the same financial reality I would.

Without my subsidy, my health insurance would cost approximately $1,800 a month. That's $21,600 a year just to have health insurance, before paying a single dollar in deductibles or copays.

That's absolute insanity.

Sadly, I've had similar experiences. Some people are so indoctrinated or have had such bad experiences with corruption in other countries, they just refuse to acknowledge how it would work in the US.

Others are so committed to the identity of not letting anyone, especially the government, tell them what to do (pay taxes), but that is a dying breed in the era of MAGA and post-Covid. (I know COVID is still very much an issue for some areas, but I digress.)

My main point is that while getting someone to understand these two facts may not change their minds, their minds will not change unless they understand these 2 facts. It opens up the door to a conversation that cannot be had beforehand.

Republicans always make Democrats sounds way cooler than they really are

Fuck I wish that was true

I read that as a joke - Nixon wasn't exactly known for his charisma either. Both were known for the other, iirc

This also means you don't have to change dr every time you change your job

Maybe if we had non old bought centrist Dem leadership. Trump and Republicans just make up stuff. I remember them calling Biden a communist when the man is on camera saying he was a capitalist.

When Trump uses words like "we" and makes speeches, he is only referring to his donors and henchmen.

We aren't even a thought for him, not even his cult

I think that's the joke, Reagan was senile but charming and Nixon had no charm but was cunning

Yeah this is the thing people seem not to literally get.

The MAGA cult is literally driven and animated by irrational hatred.

Its a cult.

You can't reason with this kind of thinking and get anywhere. You can try, and you can win the debate, and it will not matter.

You'd have to deprogram/reeducate these people, or, do what Republicans have always done with their core demo, and manipulate them based on their fears and hatreds.

Logic is ineffective.

They're not like you, who can likely be convinced you are wrong about something via sufficient reason, and then change yourself.

They cannot do this, the remaining, core MAGA cult. By now, everyone with any sense has abandoned the cult or is going full-in on being a corrupt grifter... the mass that remains is not capable of meaningfully reasoning.

I've been using a mixture of saltpeter and salt as my cure all. I'm thinking of adding smoking to the mix to give it some oomph against cancer

They have more faith in the democratic party than I do LMAO

Damn… though I don’t believe for a second it is true….

Edit: that we’d all have health care if Harris won that is.

I can agree with that. even if we can't change their mind, they're at least finally beginning to see that corporations don't operate in the best interests of consumers.

You're making an attribution mistake. The DNC and RNC are PR firms that get people elected and manipulate the population through storytelling. Elected from both parties collaborate together to run the government of the USA.

Yes, Obama/Biden actually did create the policies necessary to deploy ICE inside US cities that Trump is using. But why didn't Obama/Biden deploy them in that way? Because it's off-brand. They created the conditions collaboratively with the Republicans, but they stayed within their narrative roles. They were no less fascist, you're just choosing to draw an arbitrary line around what fascism is, and you happen to be choosing it around what makes white middle class people uncomfortable. Obama's drone strike expansion was insanely fascist, but you didn't have to experience fear because of it. Biden's management of the border was no less fascist, but you didn't have to see it. Trump's use of Obama's ICE is a narrative shock, but by the raw numbers it is less effective. Why? If Trump was such an evil fascist, why wouldn't he absolutely dwarf Obama's numbers and Biden's numbers? Because Trump is playing a narrative role when he uses shock and awe.

And let me tell you, shock and awe is not what makes something fascist. Deliberately targeting weddings, funerals, and double tapping them with unmanned bomber jets is just as fascist, or more so, then deporting people loudly.

Did the Democrats plot to overthrow the elections? Narratively, no. Functionally, yes. If the Republicas so obviously did so, then what else can you possibly call Biden's total inaction except tacit approval? He had the Epstein files in hand, he had a whole dog and pony show of an investigation, the SCOTUS said that the sitting president was immune from prosecution in carrying out the duties of the office even if that meant doing something totally illegal and Biden said "you know what, the voters will save us"? No. That's not credible. The Democrats spent a massive amount of time and effort to make us feel a certain way and absolutely zero effort in stopping what they claimed was an existential threat that literally targeted our ability to vote. So how the fuck are the voters going to solve this? They already voted in a D administration and they did fucking nothing to stop the threat. So we're supposed to vote them in again because this time they will stop threat? It's so obviously bullshit.

Did they, in the past two years, allow an unelected billionaire to destroy entire government agencies by fiat?

That's not fascism. That's factionalism. The faction that Trump is the figurehead for did that and dismantled the operations that other factions relied on. They were all factions of fascism, but even within fascism there are factions. Musk destroying e.g. USAID was an intra-fascist conflict, which is easy to see when you understand that the good things USAID did were cover for all of the covert CIA operations they facilitated.

The Democrats are not on your team. They are not trying to fight the Republicans. They are co-managing the fascist empire and a large part of that is narrative control. The fascists aren't stupid. They can't win if they only act evil and overtly. They have to both ham it up for their base (R) and they also need to co-opt any opposition they will face (D).

Yeah this is just another lie Trump told