Nah based on the update they'll just defed from even more instances

Be careful or they'll report you to mwog!

Threats of defed against db0 are fucking gross. Clearly, someone is upset their bad behavior keeps getting called out in the ye tripping bastard sub. Do better.

Based on the update it sounds more like they're trying to find a better reason to defed from db0, that doesn't somehow involve lw admins putting foot into mouth

We are still discussing this matter, but there is currently no point in keeping anarchist.nexus defederated while lemmy.dbzer0.com is federated

This honestly reads like a threat of escalation more than anything else

There is a lot to unpack here, but first and foremost, your statement contains numerous inaccuracies - e.g. it's not merely one user it is an admin - but also I notice it contains numerous instances of inflammatory language, e.g. "Trying to hurt a whole instance and the whole federation concept". AN can feel absolutely free to do whatever it pleases, so why shouldn't LW have the same rights, to block calls for literal and actual irl murder levied in their direction? Also, this is hardly the first time that one instance has defederated from another instance - this tiny blip won't even be noticed by the vast majority of people on LW.

But if you do want to talk about "hurting" someone, I find myself hard pressed to think about a worse fate than to be literally and actually irl murdered, genocided by someone who feels no remorse at all about killing off your entire family, just so that you will suffer?

And you are not even on LW, nor AN - this will not impact you personally in the slightest?

doesn’t matter which instance you land on when you sign in

Please stop spreading this. Whoever said this was incorrect. As you yourself claim, it matters a great deal to pick an instance. So pick one that aligns with your values, so that the moderation practices are those that you can live with. Otherwise, pick a different instance - such as lemmy.dbzer0.com - that you may prefer better. Also, people did not migrate away from Lemm.ee due to its restrictive moderation practices - so if you were claiming this then that would be disinformation. Although it is a strong argument that its LENIENT moderation practices were what led to its downfall, where zero admins across the entirety of all the billions of people on planet Earth could be found that were willing to put up with all the crap spewn in their direction. But this stance only weakens your own argument further, claiming that now LW should do the same as lemm.ee, and thereby end up with the same result?

If you want to do whatever you want, then start your own instance. The LW admins did precisely that, and they do not appreciate having calls for their murder put out by AN. It is their right to defederate from them if they please.

Also, we are still here. Anyone at any time may go to Reddit or X or Bluesky if they prefer, but we will remain. That is our choice. Speaking of choices, where is your acknowledgement of the other side of this - you are chiding the LW admin team, but why not (also?) chide those of AN, who routinely call for murder of people in Western civilizations? If anyone is "fragmenting the Threadiverse", don't you think that calls for actual, physical irl murder might be at least partway a cause for such a fragmentation effect? The LW team did not take this action lightly nor did it come out of nowhere - AN was the one that started this? And now LW has to determine its own response in turn.

PieFed.social's server farm just raised their prices through the roof, so I assume the disabling of ability to access it without a login is related to that. Hopefully a temporary measure.

Most other PieFed instances still allow you to see posts without a login - see e.g. https://piefed.zip/c/yepowertrippinbastards/p/1415029/lw-banned-me-and-defederated-an-over-murder-all-zionists-in-my-display-name.

What action will be taken against rogue admins on world?

All PieFed instances automatically translate links to any other instance into one that works on your own instance - where you can vote & respond with your logged-in account. It is a highly requested feature, desired for many many years on Lemmy but so far available exclusively on PieFed (perhaps some future Lemmy software release will catch up).

To get around the automatic translation, instead of just "clicking" the link, copy the link instead and paste that URL into a browser.

It was not a mod, it was the full-on admin team. Hence defederation rather than mere blocking.

The goal of Israel has never been peace but subjugation

Is it actually moving instances or just making a new account on another instance? I'd want to take everything with me including history, is that possible?

I mean...

My biggest problem with that is they should have done both from the start...

They're essentially one admin team, and between the two of them the closest thing to a popular community, is one where they talk shit about mods/admins from .world and harass the shit out of them.

There's very low amounts of users combined from both.

And I checked yours as an example, in two weeks all but two of your comments are on .world.

When admins allow their instance to a pitstop where users from anywhere can corridonate harraent and trolling....

What value comes from federating?

Look at this very thread, why would any .world admin want to deal with those admins?

I am having trouble squaring the various conflicting portions of your statement.

Luminous had also posted the FHF icon with a swastika on top to YPTB

Because the Zionists currently taking potshots at the testicles of Palestinian boys for ethnic cleansing purposes are the very people Luminous was wishing death upon in reality, not Mr Kaplan.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I would expect very few of the testicle potshotters to be using the FHF icon?

You are trying to put words into the mouth of Luminous that they never said - they very clearly levied accusations against specifically the FHF, and as the picture that Rimu showed, specifically named MrKaplan as both a Zionist and a genocide apologist.

Don't forget how Luminous even outright stated that they "preemptively banned" Mr. Kaplan - i.e. not waiting for a specific event but going ahead of any such in order to enact their agenda - which now seems to be what you are claiming that Mr. Kaplan did, but both the data and the very own words of Luminous state clearly how Luminous was the instigator here.

I banned MrKaplan preemptively from !anarchymemes@anarchist.nexus, as I do anyone who displays zionist tendencies. the ban reason was for “zionism, genocide apologia”.

It is no wonder that Mr. Kaplan felt "called out", when Luminous very explicitly did such a calling out!!

But now, throughout this thread, I mostly see people blaming Mr. Kaplan, citing how he went out ahead of any specific event and preemptively enacted an action - yet rarely or only briefly acknowledging the actions of Luminous that lead directly to Mr. Kaplan's response.

i.e. Luminous of AN started a witch hunt, calling Mr. Kaplan a witch, and got defederated in return. Although, if AN truly wants to keep anything that has even remotely touched upon Zionism away from itself, then isn't being defederated from LW a good thing? Or maybe, just maybe, Luminous did not think through the full ramifications of their decision, before they unilaterally took preemptive action against several mods and even admins of other instances?

Fwiw, this current situation is not remotely comparable to the one with JordanLund.

For one thing, it was Luminous who preemptively banned Mr Kaplan, according to their very own words:

I banned MrKaplan preemptively from !anarchymemes@anarchist.nexus, as I do anyone who displays zionist tendencies. the ban reason was for “zionism, genocide apologia”.

and buried deep in a mod log (see picture shared by Rimu elsewhere in this thread), Luminous called MrKaplan a Zionist and genocide apologist, while simultaneously calling for the actual irl murder of all such people.

You admitted yourself that you don't have much knowledge about this new issue. So then why speak up about it, as if you had researched this new matter anywhere close to the degree that you had done the previous one? Your statement comes across as bad blood, allowing yourself to be biased due to past issues with the LW team. Which if that causes you to flee that instance and move to another one then so be it, but why muddy the waters here, at least prior to looking into the current issue so that you know what went on?

Luminous started this witch hunt. Luminous on AN called for the murder of people, even - according to other admins of AN:

Luminous had also posted the FHF icon with a swastika on top to YPTB

Luminous drew the ties between Mr. Kaplan, the FHF, Nazis (unless you will try to claim a more ancient origin usage for the swastika icon?), Zionism, genocide apologists, and the actual irl murder of everyone on the FHF team. Luminous is so much worse than 100 JordanLunds, who afaik may have been a PTB but did not call out for the real, actual, irl MURDER of the people that he disagreed with on the internet? And abusing their admin powers to, again in their very own words, preemptively ban others.

Mr Kaplan's response to this is not preemptive, it is instead... a "response" to the very clear opening volley of shots sent not merely to Mr. Kaplan but to e.g. the entire FHF team, and as your very own screenshot shows, not done in isolation but mentions being done with the support of several (albeit unnamed) others.

If after RESEARCHING this you feel that you want to make another post about the situation in YPTB, I will read it with great interest. But I think you will find that the situation is much less dramatic once you start reading through all the details, and you may even find yourself having to agree with the LW team on this one, or else make a much smaller fuss about a mere procedural point of the timeline here rather than the ultimate end result.

When it comes to the whole ‘murder all zionists thing’, this just kind of proves the point that you are a zionist in the first place.

No it doesn't. Luminous outright called Mr. Kaplan a Zionist, and drew a Swastika onto the logo of the FHF. I responded elsewhere in more detail but wanted to isolate this point here: you seem to assume that Mr Kaplan felt called out due to a guilty conscience or whatever, but that is not what the facts of the matter show in this situation. Luminous very clearly called for the actual irl murder of everyone in the FHF.

And then, in their own words, preemptively banned MrKaplan.

There’s also the fact that you’re silencing voices, refusing to allow people to speak

Setting aside for the moment how Luminous abused their admin powers to do precisely that, and also btw did it first (Mr Kaplan's actions were taken in response to those of Luminous), yes that is exactly correct: the very many many many calls for outright, actual, irl murder coming from AN are now silenced, not visible to the users of LW.

Anyone who wants to can still read them ofc, but LW provides that moderation service to anyone who would like to remain on LW and receive it.

Not all of us are spoiling for a fight 100% of the time, and sometimes people just want to browse some memes once in awhile, ya'know? Without having to wade through calls for murder I mean. The rights of everyone on AN are nowhere being curtailed, i.e. they still retain full rights to speak as freely as they wish, but LW is done platforming such from them, echoing and amplifying and storing those messages on their machines the same as all of the other content on the Threadiverse. Like hexbear, AN got too problematic to have to try to figure out which communities were safer for consumption vs. which were too problematic, so since the numerous calls for violence were not being toned down and even being led by their admin team, the entire instance was defederated from. That's not a witch hunt, that's a response to very clear extremist rhetoric. LW users should not be forced into having to read MAGA-like language, even the leftist version that is supposedly on the "other side" (yet seems to behave so identically to it that I can barely tell a difference anymore).

jesus. there is no point to drastic moderation at all. 3-day individual bans implemented at the drop of a hat curbs bad behavior. after a year of those no one is 1) still causing problems or 2) even around.

anything more dramatic than this will cause people to exploit the sybil attack vulnerability of activitypub and you will never stop anyone.

it was a single admin.

I think you should probably refresh the page and look at my comment again because it's full of screenshots that are listing that, yes, I do know what I'm talking about and that what Kaplan did is indeed based off of a feeling. Including using a screenshot from Kaplan themselves.

Luminous did not start this witch hunt because Luminous acted as a moderator and not as an admin. Kaplan was the one who leapfrogged over speaking to any other admin and instantly went straight to defederation. Kaplan never told anyone else. Kaplan did not bring this up as problematic. Kaplan just instantly defederated. Something that, as this thread has been updated to show, they went ahead and undone because there was no justification for continue to defederate when the admin in question is gone.

The situation is, infact, more dramatic than I original made it out to be. I did plenty of research. You're just sitting on a very old comment because the whole thing about me "not knowing what was going on" was edited out fucking hours ago.

Like Lenin, I suppose I find it hard to accept a congruence between bourgeoise religious zealotry and the imperative for socialist egalitarianism.

That image, if it's even to be interpreted as authentic, doesn't indicate anything more than the united front of the communists and nationalists during the Japanese occupation of China. An alliance of convenience that postpones the inevitable reckoning of incompatible ideology.

Luminous acted as a user/moderator. Kaplan acted as an admin.

You are not taking any of this into account. I'm not wasting my time with this because, I too, elborated on this elsewhere.

Unless @ruud@lemmy.world is willing to put his foot down? Nothing. And I doubt he is.

It's the natural state of leftists to fight amongst each other and never accomplish anything, together (but apart).

Idk seems clear cut right (lw admin and mods) vs left with the right being the aggressive ones.

You, Kaplan and lw administration very clear on being the right

Because it is exactly that

Lemmy.world is very much like the dnc and dem leadership. Do multiple wildly unpopular things, have it blow up massively, then blame everyone else for it.

Look at this very thread, why would any .world admin want to deal with those admins?

Do you think the world admins are in the right here???

Luminous was an admin at the time. Then, Luminous stepped down from being an admin. Then, as you mentioned, LW re-federated AN once more.

If Luminous had merely been a mod, this could have been handled by blocking, but since they were an admin - at the time - it could only be handled by defederation.

I suppose you are calling MrKaplan a liar since your own screenshot mentions that it was discussed internally and not made solely by one person. It seems his word against yours, with no evidence currently presented either way.

Unfortunately, no. Fediverse allows you to cross-comment on other instances from your "home" instance you're logged into, but you have to make a whole new account on another instance to move.

We always needed to do that, since decentralization was always the entire point of the Fediverse. Especially now that PieFed has virtually solved the fragmentation issue, at least for people on PieFed instances. It takes effort though.

Defined as everyone other than you?

seem to be taking criticism of Zionism personally

Because Luminous both called the admin team Zionists and also placed a Swastika onto an icon of the FHF. It's like calling someone a "traitor" - it doesn't have to be true, it can just be a pretext to murder them regardless.

Also, people keep ignoring the fact that it's not merely the death threats levied against the admin team that are problematic, but rather the constant calls for murder shared from both AN and db0 users (as well as ML), although the call for the murder of specifically the FHF team does seem to be the straw that broke the camel's back here, regarding AN.

Luminous was an admin at the time. Then, Luminous stepped down from being an admin. Then, as you mentioned, LW re-federated AN once more.

And is still considering defederating with it again as the post states. You do not get to claim full refederation as that is not the situation we are in. You are downplaying the situation.

If Luminous had merely been a mod, this could have been handled by blocking, but since they were an admin - at the time - it could only be handled by defederation.

No. It could have been handled by speaking with the admins of the other instance and saying "This is a problem." Speech is always an option, especially before taking a nuclear one.

I suppose you are calling MrKaplan a liar

Correct.

It seems his word against yours

No, I literally just presented it in the original comment.

With no evidence currently presented either way

I literally presented evidence in the original comment. A screenshot with a message from Mr. Kaplan stating that they had no evidence for what was going on, only an odd feeling. Here is the screenshot again with the relevant information highlighted.

What is your goal here on mispresenting reality so heavily?

I clicked on the very first one. It does not advocate violence or murder.

I don't know what this list is supposed to be, but it's not the evidence it was labeled as.

Israel kicked out this conflict by colonizing palestinians and ethnically cleansing them

Israel is currently exterminating Palestinians, destroying most of the agricultural field, destroying hospitals, schools , site of worship, cultural sites, killing journalists. They call the west bank as judea meaning they want all palestinians out of the land to make it part of Israel

A person like this guy blaming the genocide and mass murder of Palestinians and Lebanese on Hamas and Hizbollah

Because apparently I can read what is happening out of your own screenshots, rather than read into them my preconceived biases?

Your very screenshot here begins with "at this point no decision is made on how we continue in terms of federation. this is not something i'm going to decide on my own without sufficient discussion in the team", and it then immediately in the next paragraph continues with "the original defederation happened..."

These words mean that the topic under discussion in that screenshot is NOT the original defederation, but rather whether AN (&dbzer0) should be re-federated, which ended up happening. So for one thing the context to the part highlighted refers to that newly current discussion, and for another it (i.e. the lack of proof) also refers to the sentence immediately prior to it, about the names targeting people rather than the ideology. In this new context those words take on entirely new meaning, but do not negate every single fact that came before - especially MrKaplan is unlikely to have forgotten the original reason for defederation.

You also shared this screenshot:

I don't want to edit your image so instead I'll type out rather than highlight the relevant part, since you don't want to read it all again:

MrKaplan: "in the end this is however not a decision i will be doing alone, nor was the defederation a decision that wasn't supported by others, despite their misrepresentation of this being me taking total power to fuck over others." (emphasis added)

However, I feel the goalposts keep shifting here, b/c to quote my own words:

I suppose you are calling MrKaplan a liar since your own screenshot mentions that it was discussed internally and not made solely by one person. It seems his word against yours, with no evidence currently presented either way.

(again, emphasis added here) To reiterate yet again, I was discussing whether the defederation had happened by MrKaplan entirely alone, vs. him consulting others, and I had indicated the word "evidence" meaning that the decision was made without consulting others. You responded with whether he had evidence to defederate the instance or not - but that is not the same topic.

Well, I suppose the topic can bring forth strong emotions. Though that is precisely what you are accusing MrKaplan of - acting on emotion rather than logic?

Anyway the communication of all of this by the LW team was definitely done exceedingly poorly - we can agree on that much, and the rest will have to wait until another day, as the decision to re-federate was already made. You've won: enjoy it:-D.

These words mean that the topic under discussion in that screenshot is NOT the original defederation, but rather whether AN (&dbzer0) should be re-federated, which ended up happening.

No, actually, it wasn't. The fact that you are trying to claim that you know the context of this conversation that you were not part of is staggering. You do not get to gaslight me, the person who was actually there, on what happened. Nor do you get to re-write the actuality of what occured. That is not what the discussion was actually referring to. It was, indeed, referring to what I originally claimed as I was the one who was there to see it.

“in the end this is however not a decision i will be doing alone, nor was the defederation a decision that wasn’t supported by others, despite their misrepresentation of this being me taking total power to fuck over others

My claim was that Kaplan did not talk to the admins of anarchist.nexus about this defederation and actually escalate this in an adult and mature way. That does nothing to claim otherwise. It was, indeed, a total power move to fuck over others. No one from any other instance was considered. No one was spoken to until after the defederation occured. How do I know? Because I was in the conversation.

I was discussing whether the defederation had happened by MrKaplan entirely alone, vs. him consulting others, and I had indicated the word “evidence” meaning that the decision was made without consulting others.

And you were the one who moved the goalpost there in the first place because my point was that anarchist.nexus was not considered all despite there being other admins on that instance. They were not talked to until after the defederation. See above for proof.

Though that is precisely what you are accusing MrKaplan of - acting on emotion rather than logic?

Correct.

we can agree on that much, and the rest will have to wait until another day, as the decision to re-federate was already made. You’ve won: enjoy it:-D.

I did not 'win'. No one 'won'. Kaplan did nothing. They backed down off of defederation temporarily but after they made a catastrophic error while still claiming that they are considering defederation.

Its kind of shocking to me that you start all of this off by saying I should do more research and then try to tell me what happened in my own conversations and not point out the fact that defederation is still on the table. I'm done having this conversation with you.

I am respecting your earlier, now-deleted comment that started off with "This is the last comment I am ever making to you.", before you made this other comment after that.

what's the third one? ahh taiwan. yeah!

This is the worst Removed by mod that I’ve seen in this thread. Terrible work as always @Serinus@lemmy.world

Lemmy.ca is also engaged in this and has followed Lemmy.worlds user bans.

I see 😄

Better safe than sorry. We've seen enough instances going down lately, being cautious makes sense.

You got me in the first half.

Taiwan doesn’t have the military power to take over mainland China, but they certainly want to.

bwahaha..... no, they don't. it would ruin the taiwanese economy to attempt and has never been a consideration. hilarious

You actually got important details wrong here that no one has corrected you on and so you have continued spreading misinfo everywhere.

Luminous had also posted the FHF icon with a swastika on top to YPTB

Luminous drew the ties between Mr. Kaplan, the FHF, Nazis

This did not happen, that user was from a different instance seen here:

If you read the YPTB post, it mentioned 3 users. One user, luminous, was an AN admin, he banned Kaplan from an anarchy meme community (one he was a mod of, he was not banned from the entire AN instance as shown from Kaplan's modlog screenshot) for zionism and this was taken as a death threat for some reason because luminous had added the murder zionists to his nick. This alone caused the defederation from AN (again, this was the proof Kaplan showed for why he defederated). While Kaplan could have talked to literally anyone on the team, it was decided to defederate and others were encouraged to defederate over death threats from 'hostile admins'... that did not happen.

This drama was incredibly dumb, in that it could have been resolved with a chat, and the takeaway is not that anyone should agree with the LW team's actions (lmao even), but that you should try talking before pushing the button. Luminous stepped down as admin days ago btw but you are only being told now that there was even a defederation and updated with refederation shortly after.

Link to post on dbzer0

Found one

I don't think that's been the reason why any instance has gone down though.

You are not on anybody's left