What's happened is the left has drifted far enough that a fair amount of the progressives are no longer happy with their decisions.

There are a surprising number of people out there who think that not voting at all and them losing will send them a message and they're going to change. They will not.

They will once again say, well, he fucked up the country bad enough we can put whoever fits our needs the best here. People will certainly vote against the right now...

what is the best way to get politicians who aren’t genocidal

I can tell you with great certainty that voting for genocidal politicians is the worst way of getting politicians who aren't genocidal.

My advice, as always, is to organize, protest, and elect, with a greater emphasis on organizing and protesting.

1. Get as involved as you can with activist efforts locally.
2. Organize, network, focus on building solidarity. Join or form a union. Join the IWW.
3. Vote at primaries and elections for the best candidate, even if you doubt they can win.
4. Don't punch down.
5. Don't punch left.
6. Educate yourself, politically.
7. Push for voting reform and for anything that breaks the two-party system.

And y'all were silent about genocide. If y'all had simply said that a genocidal candidate is fundamentally unacceptable, then you wouldn't have undermined the message and split the anti-genocide vote.

Silence is approval, cupcake.

All those Russian bots went silent after the 2008 elections, all real Democrats still talk about it!

I've been warning people about what was coming as far back as 2010, when I was a teenager. I have been telling people that "vote blue no matter who" would lead here, and people just derided me, called me a troll, I have been told endlessly that I'm making a slippery slope argument.

When Bernie's would-be victory was transmuted into Hillary's defeat, that should have been a wake-up call for you. Your politicians are playing you like a fiddle. They would rather have fascism than even the mildest social democracy.

History has vindicated leftists, again and again and again and again. Liberals, centrists, democrats, they are either in denial, or they're fully onboard with fascism.

Please, for once, listen to us. You need to help us stop this shit. We can't just keep going on voting for the lesser evil forever.

Organize, protest and elect. Emphasis on organize and protest.

1. Get as involved as you can with activist efforts locally.
2. Organize, network, focus on building solidarity. Join or form a union. Join the IWW.
3. Vote at primaries and elections for the best candidate, even if you doubt they can win.
4. Don't punch down.
5. Don't punch left.
6. Educate yourself, politically.
7. Push for voting reform and for anything that breaks the two-party system.

Nope, my position is their citizens keep voting in primaries for candidates who will effect change, then vote them in as reps.

My rationale for it is the Republicans have been doing exactly that for decades and succeeding. It will work for the other side too but it will take time and commitment.

Provided that now, because the Republicans have done this with the lunatics for so long and those lunatics know that voting is critical, they get a fair vote.

It doesn’t matter though, no matter what’s blitheringly obvious, you won’t listen and you’ll just keep on pushing ‘you’re naive; it’s all a conspiracy and Dems are as bad as the others because they won’t change for me’

Next, please. You’re like a conga line of piss and moan

Somehow all the hate for Democrats went away after the election, but every leftist can't stop shitting on them (for the right reasons.)

The enemy is both weak and strong.

I love how disenchanted voters complain about a 2 party system but fail to realize that in a democracy changing that is on them. It takes time, money, and lots hard work to build a viable 3rd alternative. Dems and GOP have zero incentive to help that process.

I don’t think people are saying you personally are a bot, but you’re falling for narratives pushed by bots.

People call me a bot quite a bit, sometimes a shill too, or a Russian troll. In reality, I'm a gay autistic over-educated furry from Scotland with hot takes firmly backed by strongly held values - that we should always work to minimize suffering and maximize happiness for ourselves and for all living things.

I am not falling for anyone's narratives. I arrive at all of my strongly held positions after a great deal of thought, consideration and evaluation. I am the person who speaks out against the popular narrative long before it becomes acceptable or even a matter of debate. I'm usually right years too early, sometimes decades. Maybe even centuries, on some topics, especially around youth liberation and anarchism. I have been an outspoken anti-zionist since 2010, for example.

I will never say that Trump winning was a good thing. It was a fucking tragedy. But if Kamala had won in 2024, she would have done nothing to prevent the material conditions which are responsible for the rise of fascism. Republicans, MAGA, and fascists would all see the continued failures of liberalism and the Democratic party to address massively growing inequality. They would become more and more reactionary, aggressive and extreme. What if, at that point, an intelligent, charismatic fascist leader appeared, and united that base? Someone who doesn't say the quiet part out loud, who did all the shit that Trump did, but was able to convince Americans that it was necessary, or even good?

absolutely zero harm has been prevented

The full outcome of Trump's premiership remains to be seen. Will the base of the Democratic party finally wake up and recognize that harm reduction narratives are a total and complete failure and demand more than the bare minimum from their electeds? Will an anti-zionist finally be elected in 2028? Or, dare I even dream it, an anti-imperialist? A socialist?

New York City got their first socialist muslim mayor, Zohran Mamdani, which one may argue was a leftist reaction to Trump.

We are also witnessing the collapse of the American Empire, massively accelerated by Trump.

We need to stop thinking in terms of harm reduction on an election-to-election basis, and start thinking in terms of the election after this one, at the very least. How can we use our vote not tactically, but strategically?

And remember, our vote is the weakest form of power we have. Our power comes from our connections and our labor.

Organize, protest and elect. Emphasis on organize and protest.

1. Get as involved as you can with activist efforts locally.
2. Organize, network, focus on building solidarity. Join or form a union. Join the IWW.
3. Vote at primaries and elections for the best candidate, even if you doubt they can win.
4. Don't punch down.
5. Don't punch left.
6. Educate yourself, politically.
7. Push for voting reform and for anything that breaks the two-party system

@Bytemeister Look you can try to help excuse Trump all you want, it's just unacceptable to be me, end of story.

Voting for a party guilty of participation in genocide, and a candidate who vowed "no change" from those genocidal policies, is not "the absolute minimum to combat fascism".

To the contrary, it is enabling fascism... and really, much worse things than simple fascism. It's just not enabling those things within the USA as much. So you're willing to inflict those evils upon people overseas if it preserves your privilege and comfort at home, and the privilege and comfort of those who you care for.

You are valuing the your own comfort and the comfort of members of your in-group as being higher priority (supreme) above the lives of other human beings. You are prioritizing your own comfort and privilege over the literal ethnic-based mass-murder of other humans (and yes, ICE is a terrible American Gestapo under Trump, but it is still not remotely comparable to what the Zionazis have done in Palestine).

To reach such a conclusion, you must hold white supremacist values, at least to the extent that the values of the west are defined by the white ruling class. Yes, even if you are not white. You need to purge those from your mind.

And that's also not me insulting you. It's totally normal for someone who grew up (I assume) under American propaganda. It's incredibly subtle and incredibly effective.

I fucking voted. For harris. Genocidal shit like you loves to make the assumption that anyone who doesn't love genocide and nothing else like you do must be a trumper or a nonvoter.

Or you don't care how anyone voted because you got your only policy either way, and just can't stand it when anyone has a problem with genocide.

And I hate everyone who manipulated events so that no one had the option to vote against genocide.

You just hate the voters.

You call everyone who doesn't masturbate to dead Palestinian children a russian.

Dude, you are straight up petulant. Howbout you accept that you need to learn something for once and go take a break from being this person?

if you think

I don’t.

That much is crystal clear.

I don’t. Get out there in the primaries, make sure it’s not him.

More gloating from the genocide wing that rigs and prevents primaries in such a way that non-genocidal candidates are shut out of the process, not by the voters but by the party apparatus.

But for fuck sake if that fails, don’t abstain.

I fucking didn't. But that will NEVER stop you genocide lovers from assuming that anyone who isn't as delighted by genocide as you have always been and always will be doesn't already vote for what you pretend is harm reduction. You would have voted for trump all three times if his opponent had breathed a word to indicate that they would actually follow the law regarding supplying weapons for genocide.

[Citation needed]

I voted for harris. You don't care. The only thing you care about is that no one breathes a word against your only policy.

I'm not digging through the genocidal compost heap that is your comment history.

God you people are full of excuses.

Oh fuck off with this. Your wing of the party found endless excuses for not doing what they campaigned on. Your wing of the party found the votes to block everything. Until netanyahu wanted weapons, then all those excuses vanished instantly and the law was no impediment.

Republicans fight for the reprehensible shit republican voters want. It's too bad that's also what you fight for while expecting lockstep fealty.

That’s convenient.

To not have your time wasted by a sealioning genocidal troll, yup.

I think you’re confused by the meaning of most of the words in that sentence.

The fact that you've read what I've posted and come to the conclusion that I'm making excuses for donald trump, speaks volumes about your media literacy and ability to understand context.

you’ll just keep on pushing ‘you’re naive; it’s all a conspiracy

yeah its conspiracy that biden shamelessly did what 90% of voter base was against and harris said she will do it again. now trump is doing what 60% his base is against.

all the piss and moaning is done by blue maga cucks who keep posting these cringe meme like this post we are replying to. we are not asking for perfection, only that adhere to agendas your entire voter base wants. no compromise on stopping corpo parasites and genocide.

Because it is. Trump is going to win if you dont do what you can to stop him. He is actively vying for a third term and people here are saying theyll let him have it unless they get every concession they demand. Fuck the consequences. And you all think that is a legitimate way to let this all play out. Dividing your votes into a hundred different candidates will fail. This is fact amd reality.

No i didnt. I voted for harris to try and stop this bullshit. YOU got what you wanted. Harris lost and now the world must contend with the consequences and even more people will die.

Fuck israel. Theres and entire school of iranian kids that are now dead because harris lost. That is the destinction.

@Bytemeister It's not media literacy, it's a simple yes or no question. Was there any justification for people voting for a fascist Nazi that promised the bloody deportation of a million immigrants. Bernie says yes, I say no and F Bernie. What's your answer? The way you guys always try to hide what you're saying is crazy to me. Zero excuses for it, none, not one that I accept.

Bullshit .you asked for metrics. Those are fucking metrics. Can you not read

Israel would be, and therefore, we would be too. Yes.

No we wouldnt. Biden had four years to do this and never did. Youre making up fake scenarios to justify your position

You'll recall that Biden actually kept many of the Donald tariffs, so yes, it's likely we'd be okay with disrupting trade to some extent.

Some not all anf hr didnt introduce 200% random tarrifs accross allues and random countries alike. Again fake scenarios to justify your position

Not Canada or Greenland specifically, but considering Obama was at war in 7 countries when he left office (that we're able to confirm, at least. Could be many more.), and Biden was bombing several countries as well as aiding and abetting genocide and a manufactured famine in Palestine, it's hard to argue that we wouldn't be doing stupid shit militarily regardless. That's especially true given the bloodlust of Israel and the Democrats' insistence that we continue to hand them WMD's on demand.

So no. He wouldnt have like trump did do and that youre trying to downplay with made up scenarios of what you think biden would have done even though he could have but didnt.

You need to stop gaslighting yourself into thinking everyone is the same and only you are special and different and see the problems of the world. They are different. There are people dead today that would not have been had harris won and trump lost. But you do all this song amd dance to try and justify inaction in the face of trump. Or worse cause so much division that no cohesive response to trump can be formed.

that Biden shamelessly did

What? Parachute Harris in? IIRC, that was a broadly popular move.

It does not alter my original and only genuine point though; if you and your ilk all vote, you’ll stop this. That is evidenced by the Republicans doing the same.

now Trump is doing the same

No, he’s doing worse, because there’s no way this would be going on Harris been elected. We all told you this would happen around the time we told you that you’d elect him again.

all the pissing and moaning

Is being done collectively by Americans, not just blue MAGA cucks as you put it. They’re all full of excuses, they just vary in angle. Poor reps. Can’t vote because job. Not me I didn’t vote for it. This is not what I voted for. We can’t do anything it’s rigged. Take a card.

your entire voter base

Not mine. Check my country. I’ll throw you a bone; I agree, I think the Democrats are dogshit, offer dogshit candidates, are beholden to outside influences and there’s rationale behind the complaints of the left. Absolutely. Fucken oath they should have backed Sanders, Warren,AOC and I’m glad Mamdani owned them because it is finally proof to the shitlibs that progressive candidates are what is needed.

Just vote. Participate, even if it’s a non desirable candidate who at least won’t continue a petrochemical war. Until you can get the people in who will then make voting third party worthwhile by offering ranked choice as you call it, it’s counterproductive. I know, but they won’t, okay? The long route is the only way.

If you actually read, and understood my comments, then you would know the answer. The fact that you don't is, again, a very strong indicator that your ability to read and understand written text is limited.

I can quote the relevant section for you if you need assistance still, but previous interactions lead me to believe this would be a futile waste of time on my part.

@Bytemeister That's a lot of words for a yes or no.

Oh fuck off with this

Nup, it’s the truth. Can’t vote because job. Candidate is not perfect and is responsible for some one else actions overseas. I didn’t vote for him. I can’t do anything. It was rigged. My vote doesn’t make a difference. Take a card ay. Every American has an excuse, they just build it around their situation.

Your wing

Not an American. Listen to Obama. Don’t whinge, vote. For the record, I agree, the centrist Democrats are very disappointing and quite beholden to bad actors.

Your wing…found the votes to block everything

Take that up with them, but having Harris as your president now would definitely be better for you and everyone.

Netanyahu

Set this up years ago with Epstein and got the ball rolling for this by instigating this with his Hamas mates. All done so Americans willing to hold Democrats responsible for that attack through emotional appeal via genocide, and they came in hook, line and sinker. Played. Disgracefully I might add.

It’s not the first time, they tried similar shit on Clinton, remember? Another terrible candidate. We’d still be in a better place had she won though.

Republicans fight for the reprehensible shit

Yes. We have been saying this for years. Back then it was ‘I don’t gave to bite, it’s my right, mind your own business’. Without realising, as you see now, what weight that vote has. Another reason to respect it.

what you fight for while expecting lockstep fealty

I repeat, I am not one of these people you want to pigeonhole me as. I want you all to vote, participate and take politics seriously. Recognise your system, as it stands, offers only one way to fix it and that is to graft it out by voting for your people and backing them. That’s it. If I see Newsom as the runner I know you will have failed the primary and that will be on you. I don’t want Newsom, I want your progressive. Don’t let us down again.

I voted for Harris

Thank you. It was a bitter choice. They gave you no opportunity to choose a successor but as I understand it, that was because the Democrats held the seat? That said, I think you should have been allowed to choose and it should not have been Harris, who was never popular.

you don’t care

That’s not true. The day Hamas made that strike I knew what was behind it. I was sad not just for Palestine, which I knew would be destroyed if this played out and Americans who would be fooled by it and possibly elect Trump through non participation.

That said, I don’t care what Americans think of me. Not when they’re doing what they are around the world and what they aren’t at home to prevent or stop it, what they elected and what they are standing for. It might be a badge tbh.

no one breathes a word…

It’s. Not. Mine.

That much is crystal clear

Hahaha bright eyes I’m not the one who elected and us going through all this ay. I wouldn’t be pulling that shit on if I were you

more gloating from the genocide wing

More tribal American shit from tribal Americans who cannot think beyond their movement in politics.

rigs and prevents

Republicans have had no issues with it for the past…decades…

in such a way that

You say that, I reckon it’s just simply not enough of you voting

But yes, it’s on me and my tribe, my wing. I helped prevent your candidates from getting there.

I fucking didn’t

Excellent.

but tgat will never stop you genocide lovers

Yep, totally support the actions of Israel, you said so and will keep doing so regardless if tge truth because your points hinge on that necessity; I must be a Zionist

you would have voted for Trump

This is a stupid fuckin statement and deserves little regard.

As a foreigner, I’ve been opposing Trump openly since he ran the first time. I’ve called this shit since Gingrich and Ryan were obstructing Obama. Back then you were telling us it couldn’t happen, the Supreme Court would stop it, I knew you fools would let the country fall. I hoped you wouldn’t do it twice, but here we are.

You’ll do it again too, if you’re lucky enough to get a reprieve.

The party leadership? I don't. The voter base, though...

I don't want to waste my time with a disingenuous troll, so let's make a deal. Let's put some "skin" in the game.

I wager that I can show you that the information you seek (Do I think it is acceptable to vote for a fascist promising to kill a bunch of people) from me has already been presented in our comments over the last day. I will show you this, if you agree to read a book of my choosing and write me a 500 word essay on the themes discussed in the book before you comment on the Fediverse again.

If I can't present the information you seek, then I'll read a book of your choosing and write you a 500 word essay on the themes of the book before I post on the Fediverse again.

Deal? You seem to like to shoehorn people into yes/no answers, so go ahead and respond in that fashion yourself.

Just a little preface, if you say no, then it's pretty obvious you're a troll who has no interest in actually discussing stuff, and there really isn't any need to reply at all TBH. You could also just not reply, and save us both some time.

They gave you no opportunity to choose a successor but as I understand it, that was because the Democrats held the seat?

There is no requirement that an incumbent president must be the nominee. Centrist pro-genocide-and-nothing-else democrats sued to make sure no challenger to biden was on the ballot in all 50 states. Then biden stepped down and appointed harris. At no point were the voters asked. Anyone who voted uncommitted in the primaries was screamed at for being a traitor by people who demand affirmative support for genocide and nothing else.

People like you.

I want you all to vote, participate and take politics seriously

Provided we always vote for genocide and nothing else.

I don’t want Newsom, I want your progressive.

Party leadership successfully argued in court that they have the right to rig the primaries so we only get whatever genocidal shit they and you want.,

Kamala wanted a 2 state solution. You see trumps policy.

So no, not the fucking same. Also, I'm not the one who turned America into a fascist state because ISRAEL was bombing people.