Basically, when you tolerate the intolerant, tolerance dies. You need social rules to maintain the order, that means some beliefs need to be culled by kicking out or silencing those who are dangerous.

You could always open feddit.org in a private window to check on them if you wanted. I checked recently and they seemed pretty unaware of it even happening. My guess is that they'll be seething when they find out.

Then make it a clear, public figure. Make it transparent.

Yup that's the way to go. Actually my first client I used for Lemmy (Liftoff) made multiple accounts really easy since you could switch feeds and accounts in one click and quickly. But even if you just use multiple accounts on the web switching between tabs or using Tesseract isn't that difficult.

Im sorry how is making an instance vote a "weird authoritarian way of dealing with stuff"? Or is authoritarism when someone does something you dont agree with?

Reddit Karma is not good, I don't want a Karma system on the Fediverse. That was one of the worst things about Reddit. Karma is essentially ass-kissing points, you get them for kissing ass, and you loose them for making people butt-hurt.

I can't support that, it creates nasty psychological patterns that make people prone to siding with popularity and not with what's right.

what [Netenyahu's Israel is] doing is still not on the same level of evil as Nazi Germany.

Very difficult to say this for sure. Some of the acts we've seen are on the same level, frankly. And how could you possibly measure this, objectively?

I don't think this can be argued meaningfully, and so should be removed from your argument.

As to the German law:

• Is that applicable here on Lemmy?

• Is it up to the mods to interpret German law and apply it?

You're really not arguing in good faith, are you? Not supporting hamas doesn't mean I'm not in favor of resistance against genocide.

But just to clear this up once more:

• I am against genocide
• I support resistance against genocide
• I still hold resistance groups to certain minimal standards
• Hamas does not fulfill my standards

So no, I do not support Hamas. But yes, I do support Palestinian resistance in theory.

Because this is Lemmy, the whole point for me at least being decentralized, democratized; making non-privacy based knowledge exclusive to the effective elites goes against that principle to me. Perhaps that's not why you're here, but it does matter to me. It's the same reason I think the Modlog is a vital part of the Lemmy appeal; more transparency with users as community members, not just customers.

It's a score that is controlled by other people, which causes restrictions if it gets too low.

It's moderation by popularity. I can't and won't support that.

I did not argue for karma, I argued that if karma exists, it should be public. I am at least equally happy with such score not existing for Piefed admins either.

It just shows how some people know jack shit and still throw their opinions around LMAO

Go to their matrix channels, they're throwing around ACAB, generalizing people and if you don't support nuking israel, you will be banned for supporting the genocide. There is no debate, there is no discussion its a hive that moves into a certain direction and if you don't you are an outcast. Words do still mean things and acting like you can't govern democratically and authoritarian at the same time makes no sense.

Also acting like every community on feddit.org is a genocide supporting shithole is just crazy. The fediverse lives from its interoperability across the knots. I am a grown ass adult, I don't need DB0 to make the moral decision for me with whom I can interact and with whom I can not. What I think is quite ironic, is the fact that even though the instance is "anarchistic", everyone is licking the boots of the governing authority pretty good. I guess you either die a hero or live long enough to become a power tripping bastard yourself.

Definitely seems sus.

The issue starts beforehand. It's easy to get an instance vote to agree with you if you ban and insult everybody on your instance who is not agreeing with you. That works exactly like those voter registration purges the Trump admin is doing.

Oh nice meeting a Zionist apologist who I had already tagged "Evroshitlib 🤡", posting apologia for a settler-colonialist project. The Zionist entity has no right to exist. Period.

Congratulations, you just earned yourself the "🤡" user tag!

The vote was literally pinned instance-wide for a week and it passed with an overwhelming absolute majority, with a majority of comments (of various active and established users) calling for a defed instead of just community bans

You know that "Anschuldigungen" aka. allegations can turn out to be true, right?? 🤯🤯

Also they seem like good little Germans for enthusiastically following orders pre-emptively and overinterpreting them 🫡🫡🫡

the situation in Gaza is actually different than the situation in Nazi Germany

Last I checked, the genocidal state of Israel is actually using weapons to vaporize Palestinians, thus leaving not even a trace of a war crime. Would you like to amend your statement?

Oh that's absolutely understandable. The more with how bloated interfaces tend to be these days.

Just mind, you have to consider what does it mean for your instance to be open enough to serve you everything in one account.

I think piefed's biggest proponents lie about this because it is one of the more unappealing aspects of piefed, and there isn't really a way to sugarcoat it. Social credit score based on the votes of others is just a shitty way of running a social platform.

Humans as social creatures already have innate fear of social rejection, and Karma/Social Credit systems on platforms that punish rejection just feed that dark pattern even more aggressively. It's really not something I would elect to use after going through Reddit's version of Karma. Especially because Piefed's is ever more conditional (they can blacklist communities from counting towards your score positively but you still lose score points from those communities).

It's been on the public fediverse eye enough that I don't need to do your homework for you, but just look for mentions to piefed in this same sub. One of the exemplary things that was found was that you can't eg.: "upload a picture that contains the word 'anonymous'" and that Piefed lies to you about why.

the shun is collective. the re-education is something the person being shunned must participate in as part of the collective in order to no longer be shunned

You are the one who initiated the vote, right?

They're on piefed so it's just hidden/inherent to the code

Such an excellent thread for filling out my block list

Very difficult to say this for sure. Some of the acts we’ve seen are on the same level, frankly. And how could you possibly measure this, objectively? I don’t think this can be argued meaningfully, and so should be removed from your argument.

I was attacked by people from dbzer0 and called "pro genocide" for saying that, but: There is of course a way to measure and compare violent acts. There is a whole academic field called "Comparative Genocide Studies" which, as you can guess, studies genocides, their differences, how they were committed and is trying to compare them or to categorize them. There are also people doing this from a military point of view studying how wars are fought and so on. That is something you can do - but not here on Lemmy.

As to the German law: Is that applicable here on Lemmy? Is it up to the mods to interpret German law and apply it?

Yes? Feddit.org is an austrian/german site and therefore has to operate under local rules. The fediverse is not some lawless cyberspace thing. It has servers running in datacenters and those servers have to account for local laws. It has people funding those servers and those people are people living in their home country have to obey local laws.

Thanks for linking that, that proves my point. If you have banned all "pro-zionist users" (whatever that is), it is no surprise that the next vote for banning a "pro-zionist instance" will also go succeed. Let's have another vote in a few weeks proposing to ban all users who were against banning that "pro-zionist instance"! Democracy at work!

and you don't support resistance against genocide in practice

What I don't agree with is that wording.

I don't support this specific form of resistance against genocide in practice. What you wrote there most literally means I don't support resistance against genocide in practice in general, which is what I can't agree with. If we're just talking about Hamas specifically, or the shape that resistance has taken in this genocide specifically, then I agree with the statement. But the way it's written here and was written before, I can't agree with it, it's too broadly worded and easily misconstrued when taken out of context.

"In Germany after National Socialism we have all been brainwashed to support genocide and Zioism and have to legally support our government sending weapons to a genocide because we like the previous one so much. Also we have a Gestapo which enforces this just like how we did in WW2".

I’m basically sure I’ll be condemned as a zionist now, or whatever, go ahead.

Literally putting on the classic Nazi disclaimer

Can you explain why Germans have learned absolutely nothing from the Holocaust?

Very cool of dbzer0.

It's a good thing to ban Zionists, actually. Support for genocidal settler-colonialism is bad.

How can it be a triad if there are 4 🤓

Why not go to an even broader instance like Lemmy.zip?

1. That's not true. A lot of users have spoken out against defederation. Just look at the top comments here. There is no way you can speak of a “consensus” as the admin of dbzer0 claims.

2. It's completely ridiculous to accuse feddit.org of being Zionist because particularly militant anti-Zionist forms (“Death to Israel”) are not allowed there. This line of argument is inconclusive and makes the classic conversion fallacy. But more importantly, most people on feddit.org are very critical of Israel. For example, I never read that anyone seriously denies that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. Even if it did happen, it would be criticized immediately. They probably just don't do so with the radicalism that is represented on dbzer0. Instead of concluding that there is at least a large overlap here, that the people on feddit.org are not only not allies, but in fact enemies (“fascists”), is so ridiculous that I can hardly believe that this is being advocated by adults. Yes, there have always been these stupid left-wing purity contests. But I think this reaches a new level of stupidity here.

I can't stand this anymore. There are actual fascists who want to destroy both the users of feddit.org and dbzer0. They won't care how purely anti-Zionist the person in question is. They'll hang us all equally if they get the chance. But instead of uniting, we are creating new hostilities between us.

Why do you tankies always lie

For full clarity, it was the "tankies" reporting on PieFed's social credit score system, Deceptichum is attacking the "tankie" position. The comment you linked is from a "tankie." In fact, it was because the communists started talking about PieFed's social engineering that this drama even kicked off.

Unfortunately, dbzer0 has not yet provided a consistent definition of Zionism, which is why they always resort to the broadest possible interpretation. As a result, it is essentially impossible to differentiate between the IDF and feddit.org (or at least their ideology), which is obviously stupid, but has the advantage of simplicity. One can simply throw the word around and everyone nods dutifully.