https://lemmy.ml/post/39719938

Since you seem to think I'm homophobic and a bigot...you might want to add diva@lemmy.ml to that list then.

Because that's the bullshit ban she was given for using cumrag...just as I got the ban for saying trump is sucking putins dick.

Notice how Rimu won't respond to this, knowing they can't refute this.

If you can't help but see a consistent position against the death penalty as "Nazi apologia", that's your problem.

There’s no need to when the modlog speaks for itself.

You wanna link it then?

B-but he has to be a misogynist! If he can't be a sexist asshole, the place is too woke and bans him!

Funny, I get to see the text, but on piefed.zip, so my instance. The link also points to piefed.zip instead of anarchist.nexus Maybe anarchist.nexus is a piefed instance and it doesn't play well with lemmy? Might be some kind of bug.

Or it's simply because of the defederation. Might be the most reasonable explanation.

No problem.

Correction I was banned for 'homophobia' for complaining about someone using the term "cumrag" on a post title. We have since squashed that beef.

You were just doing the claasic 'homophobia is okay when its a bad person', which is still homophobia

That's the .world modlog for nothing in particular, wanna try again?

You asked for a link to the modlog I provided it for you.

Correction I was banned for 'homophobia' for complaining about someone using the term "cumrag" on a post title. We have since squashed that beef.

Ah my bad, I read that wrong.

You were just doing the claasic 'homophobia is okay when its a bad person', which is still homophobia

Wait wait, how is me saying that trump likes the taste of putins dick homophobia now? I've literally had gay friends use "they can suck a bag of dicks" as a way to express annoyance at someone.

I don’t know man, the admins of this instance don’t owe anything to the users over there, and the defederation doesn’t meaningfully impact anyone over there as far as I understand.
If I was regularly chatting with people who call for killing me, I would have a very high blood pressure.

How many Palestinians did the Israelis kill and displace from the time that the UK allowed them free rein to push into the territory after WWI? How many homes have they seized or destroyed?

Rimu lied about leftists? Must be a day that ends in y.

Probably too busy deleting accounts from piefed.social social or will have their piefed pr person take over

I hope that db0 doesn’t get defederated.

I would hope we can all remember that we can be pro-Palestine, anti-genocide without being anti-semitic, you can be anti-Hamas without being pro-genocide, you can believe in a state for the Jewish people and also be against the current government of Israel.

We are all on the fediverse for similar reasons, we’ll be a lot more successful trying to see the nuance in people’s views instead making enemies of each other out of righteous indignation. This goes for everyone

I get best results smoking it.

We've had this discussion before, you just use the term anarchist because you don't like the negatives of being an authoritarian communist that would love to run the golags for those of us who disagree with tankies.

You still post and mod at hexbear...a literal place that spews russian/CCP propaganda and is cool with Ukraine being invaded. They don't get to deny the Uyghurs genocide, but then say Palestine is a genocide...both are true...they just don't like the Palestinian genocide because some western fuckwits are the ones doing it.

Isn't .db0 the anarchist hangout btw?

I have a lot of respect for db0 the user, but that admin’s behavior is immature and beneath him. I hope someone talks to him about it on the instance admin team.

What about anti-Taiwan imperialism in China? Because Taiwan claims all of China and the 7 dotted line.

Taiwan has to maintain these heritage claims because repudiating them would effectively be de facto repudiating the 'one-china' agreement and equivalent to declaring independence, which China would take as a casus belli. It's a farce. No-one, Taiwan included, genuinely believes that they can get any of that land, nor that it would be desirable to pursue it.

You cannot be against Zionism and support Ukraine at the same time.

This is silly. So you assume every single person who supports Ukraine defending themselves against Russia is automatically pro-Israel?

That UK law is really something.

Do you think there is any chance it will get reviewed at some point?

so I know lemmy.world "pre-emptively defederated hexbear as a last resort" and kept throwing this "troll instance" thing around (https://hexbear.net/post/280770). but for most other instances like sh.itjust.works it was hexbear defederating due to reactionaries flooding hexbear or people just feeling unsafe around them, see

• https://hexbear.net/post/5221649
• https://hexbear.net/post/1672023
• https://hexbear.net/post/528899
• https://hexbear.net/post/458637
• https://hexbear.net/post/369410

"The federation" didn't drop hexbear as a whole, you can just search for "vote" or "defed" in !announcements@hexbear.net and !hexbear@hexbear.net to see the votes for yourself, its all public.

Between 1918 and 1947, Jewish immigrants bought land legally. There was no forced displacement.

UK allowed them free rein to push into the territory

The UK severely restricted Jewish immigration into the mandate after the Arab revolt from 1939. Tens of thousands of Jewish refugees from the Holocaust were blocked from entering. They were deported and interned in camps on Cyprus.

displaced, killed

Around 700,000 Palestinians fled in 1947/48, only a minority of those were displaced by force. Many fled before the war really started.

Around 200,000 fled in 1967.

In 1947/48, tens of thousands of Jews were expelled from the West Bank and Jerusalem. Among them were the oldest continued Jewish inhabitants of the land.

After 1948 Muslim and Arab states expelled 800,000 Jews, many of which fled to Israel.

The number of overall deaths including Arabs and Jews was in the low tenthousands from 1918 to 2022.

More than tenthousand Palestinians were killed by Jordan during Black September. At least 5000 died during the civil war in Syria.

October 7th was by far the deadliest day of the whole conflict. Never before or after have that many people died in one day.

More numbers over the whole timeline can be found here. They don’t differentiate between Palestinians and other Arabs, combatants and civilians.

For piefed.social login screen, there was a massive scrappers attack, so they had to close 😔

lol and there it is.

If there's one Xi/Putin supporter at a table...

i use the term anarchist because it's how i organize, the people i organize with, and the values i hold.

i picked .ml at the time because it was the developer instance, but i've stuck with it because it pisses people off.

i haven't found places like hexbear to be unwelcoming either; the comm i mod there even has an explicit rule against sectarianism (ie, if an ml is shittalking anarchists broadly it will get moderated). i don't have anything against db0, i even help mod a comm there too.

Calling for mass death is not mere criticism.

No you actually can't be anti-"the only group resisting genocide" while also being anti-genocide. This is like being against apartheid in south africa and telling the ANC to disarm.

You can't believe in an ethnostate settled on other peoples land and be against the government doing settlerism.

These positions are contradictory. Either you want the jewish supremacist ethnostate to settle palestine, you don't or you have no opinion. But you can't have an "israel" without jewish supremacism, that's why it's called "israel". It comes from judaism, it's about a land just for jews. You either support the palestinians right to return, or you support "israel". Because you can't have one without the other. This is not a policy thing. This is baked into the very foundation of this so-called country.

We already talked about it between admins, Rimu included. There were a long debate.

AN just wanted to share their side of story and bring you more complete info. u.u

Wait wait, how is me saying that trump likes the taste of putins dick homophobia now? I've literally had gay friends use "they can suck a bag of dicks" as a way to express annoyance at someone.

for one, using 'sucks dick' as metaphor for submission treats gay sex as inherently degrading. that's what's specifically homophobic.

'my gay friends say it' is kind of the 'my black friends use the n-word' defense

there's plenty of things to shit on both trump and putin for, i think the problem is bringing sex into it at all. my sentiments about the two of them would best be expressed by putting me in the same room as them with a loaded gun

Ah, so this is why I have you tagged as "Samskara? More like Hasbara"

Or you could move to an instance not run by weirdo Zionists ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Lemmy.world not beating the allegations of harboring Zionists

The majority of Jews worldwide and millions of others support the continued existence of Israel.

You get that this kind of rhetoric is not really helpful right?

"The majority of Germans supported the nazi state" makes people cheer for bomber harris, it is not gonna make them reconsider their opinion of the nazis.

We are in the 3rd year of accelerated, active, livestreamed genocide. At this point most people who are semi-conciously watching the news are against Pissrael. It's so bad even germans are starting to see whats happening.

Zionist simply means the right of the Jewish people to self determination to have a state, where they are the majority and safe from persecution.

Everybody knows Pissrael wants to be an apartheid ethnostate, that's why we oppose them. Not because we are against Jews, but because we are against apartheid and ethnostates.

"Voting AfD simply means supporting the right of the German people to self determination to have a state, where they are the majority and safe from persecution."

You are making our point for us.

I agree with you that you can’t support the current Netanyahu government and IDF and be anti-genocide.

Hamas abducted and kills innocent people. That’s a fact. I can be anti-genocide and anti-attacks on civilians without contradicting myself.

A two-state solution is messy and complicated but it’s what the world needs. Arabs and Jews both have claims to the land throughout history. The Jews were displaced from it due to horrific antisemitism throughout history. One horrific act doesn’t deserve another. The west (and specifically the USA) needs to withhold its support, Israel can do what it’s doing specifically because it’s emboldened by western support. It’s surrounded by Arab nations that hates its people, it could be the ones being oppressed if not for the west and the west remind of that.

Calling for the dissolution of a genocidal settler-colony as a political entity does not mean you want everyone dead. Israel is a genocidal settler-colony and has no right to exist as a state, its continued existence requires ongoing oppression of Palestinians, spilling out into Lebanon, Syria, and open war with other countries as well.

What incentive do I have to remain here if I can't see stuff from other instances?

To be clear, I'm pretty sure you and many other folks on Lemmy might characterize me as a "shitlib" overall, and I'm not familiar with language like "tone police" but from context I understand that you feel like I criticized you for being "strident" which I guess is true, and I apologize for that.

It is probably my "liberal" background that makes me think that strident presentation weakens argument, and I thought your point would have been clearer/better/more persuasive without that overriding passion. Anyhow that's all just style.

Is it not pretty well documented that Netanyahu and company did, in fact, enable/approve a bunch of Qatari money to be funneled to Hamas? And that he's stated openly that the reason is to keep the PA and Hamas separate and not working together?

I wasn't aware of the Israel-Created-Hamas drama, but that article you linked certainly paints a pretty clear picture of a lot of early Israeli influence/meddling, despite the aim of the article to say nuh-uh.

"Created" is too strong a term for sure, but it seems pretty obvious that Israel's policies of ever-increasing oppression/colonization/genocide make a pretty fertile environment for a popular resistance group with an armed/violent component to form.

Did the US "create" ISIS? Not exactly, but they (we) sure did set the stage super-effectively.

Russia did not create the NRA but they absolutely did co-opt and use it to their great benefit to funnel money around to influence US internal politics. NRA today is, very rightly, a discredited and declining organization.

Big-mad defensiveness from criticisms of Hamas over Israeli influence (open, discrete or clandestine) are counterproductive to Hamas' interest in my opinion. They would be better to take the time to reflect, analyze and ensure that their current decisions aren't being influenced by Israel.

Unfortunately for Palestinians, I don't think the Hamas organization is very good at this, but it's not a huge surprise --- Israel is extremely effective with these kinds of operations, and not only in regards to Hamas. USA is their most important target.

"Liberal Optics Framing" is another new phrase, but it's not as clear to me as tone police.

When I said (without a lot of thought) Hamas has "represented poorly" I was assuming that Hamas has been supported/funded/enabled by Netanyahu et al because the policies/actions they expect Hamas to take will be a better outcome for Israel than the policies/actions of the PA had they won the election.

I'm pretty sure you understood that. And I'm pretty sure the assumption is reasonable.

Is your objection of/to liberal optics framing because the implication is that Hamas is more violent than the PA, and it's very clear that Israel WANTS more Palestinian violence to continue to justify their own violence?

The violent terrorism we have seen from Hamas hasn't exactly turned out to be "effective resistance" at all.

TBH I don't know what would even count as effective resistance at this point.

Maybe the most effective thing they could/can do is continue the social media appeals / influence campaigns which do generate discussions like this one, but does that even count as "resistance"

Anyhow this is already too long and rambling, and I do thank you for taking the time to engage. I read stuff around here because I want to understand the left (left-er?) better.

700,000 Palestinians fled in 1947/48

They just did that. No reason.

Not accepting calls for death of millions is very reasonable.

You do not accept Theodor Herzl's own rhetoric then surely:

Mauschel ist Antizionist. ... Der Zionismus könnte es halten, wie Tell in der Sage. Wenn sich Tell anschickt,
den Apfel vom Haupte seines Sohnes zu schießen, hat er
noch einen zweiten Pfeil in Bereitschaft. Mißlänge der erste
Schuß, dann soll der andere der Rache dienen. Freunde, der
zweite Pfeil des Zionismus ist für Mauschels Brust bestimmt!^[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/HerzlMauschel-full.pdf]

Talking about killing his "fellow" Jews because they oppose his colonial plans.

accelerated, active, livestreamed genocide

The numbers of deaths per month in Gaza has consistently decreased since the first two months of the war.

Look, that war in Gaza is pretty bad and should end. Settlements in the West Bank should also end. Hamas should accept the ceasefire, disarm, and let a Palestinian civilian government rebuild. Hezbollah should also keep the ceasefire, retreat across the Litany and let the Lebanese government take over. The continued fighting by Hamas and Hezbollah after they were severely beaten has drawn out this war much longer, than it needed to be.

Israel should have ended the war much sooner.

makes people cheer for bomber harris

Bombing civilians and destroying cities wasn’t militarily effective. It was mostly terror. Sure you can argue they deserved it in some way. To put this in perspective Operation Gomorrah killed more than 20,000 people in Hamburg in one attack. We haven’t seen anything like that in Gaza.

Voting AfD simply means supporting the right of the German people to self determination to have a state

Do you think AfD voters should all be killed?

Calling for death to all those who support Israel‘s existence is a call for more violence and war.

You fail to differentiate between those who support Israel‘s current policies and those who support the existence of Israel. Lots of Israelis are opposed to Netanyahu. Before October 7th there were huge protests inside Israel against him. Even afterwards the most consistent protests against the war were inside of Israel.

If you want to kill all Israelis who are against the war, Netanyahu, and settlements, you make peace impossible.

The Jews were displaced from it due to horrific antisemitism throughout history.

No, Pissrael started as an explicitly colonial project. Very explicit, see e.g. the Jewish Colonial Trust. That's why Theodor Herzl contemplated writing^[https://palcit.net/article-676-i-want-you-to-put-the-stamp-of-your-authority-on-the-zionist-plan] to Cecil Rhodes (of Rhodesia infamy). That's why there is a lost generation of "Mizrahi" Jews, why they sterilised ethiopian jews without their knowledge or consent. Zionism has always been a rich white jew first ideology. And they absolutely hate arabs and muslims. Please have a read through https://www.palestineremembered.com/ its a treasure trove.

Most fled because war was imminent. Some were forcibly displaced, as I said before.

Arab leaders inside Palestine and outside had called for Palestinians to evacuate and return after the war was won and the Jews were thrown into the sea.

The situation and history in Haifa gives you an idea of the complexities and chaos of the situation.

People fleeing from war happens in all wars. It’s usually the more well off that leave first.

Where do the 20% of non Jewish citizens of Israel come from? They are those who stayed and their descendants.

That’s the topic of this thread though. Calls for death.

Hasbara is the Hebrew word for explanation.

Ad hominem is of course easier than actually engaging with information and facts.

Deleting your reddit.world account punishes them too, because the fewer people that use that instance the less important their moderation decision are.

for what its worth i appreciate the good faith engagement and the apology.

on 'liberal optics framing': for me this is shorthand for 'what looks good to western observers'. you said hamas was 'represented poorly', this centers how palestinians are perceived rather than material reality of occupation.

even if israel does try to create a 'strategy of tension' (ie provoke/allow funding of violent response to justify crackdown) that doesn't mean the oppressed are wrong for resisting. it's just part of the standard playbook for colonial powers because it allows them to paint themselves as simply defending against unreasonable actors.

the logic of 'don't resist violently because that's what they want' leads to: don't resist at all, because any resistance will be used to justify more violence. that's paralysis, not strategy.

colonial powers will use any resistance, be it violent or nonviolent, to justify violence. the great march of return (2018) was explicitly nonviolent and israel still shot medics, journalists, children, all of them unarmed protesters. they'll justify crackdowns regardless.

from my perspective the question isn't 'does resistance give israel pretext' (it always will), it's 'does resistance materially challenge occupation and build toward liberation.'

armed resistance does that: it makes occupation costly, ties down military resources, and demonstrates that colonization won't be accepted peacefully.

calling palestinian armed resistance 'violent terrorism' accepts israeli/US framing. armed resistance to military occupation is legitimate under international law. the framing 'terrorism' vs 'self-defense' is itself colonial, resistance to colonization is treated as terrorism while state violence is treated as legitimate.

on netanyahu/qatar money: yes, it's documented that he allowed qatari money into gaza and exploited hamas/pa divisions. but my issue is that the framing surrounding 'israel created/funded hamas' removes palestinian agency and treats resistance as israeli puppet show. hamas emerged from material conditions of occupation. netanyahu exploited existing divisions for divide-and-conquer, a standard colonial tactic

your isis comparison isn't wrong either, the US didn't create isis but created conditions (iraq invasion, destabilization) that enabled it. they also helped fund it. israel also supported isis as it was a useful wedge to destabilize syria

on what's 'effective': resistance isn't just one front. it requires action on every axis. armed struggle adds material cost to occupation. BDS and legal challenges such as ICC/ICJ adds economic/diplomatic pressure. countering propaganda shifts societal opinion against the occupation. the goal isn't just military victory, it's making occupation unsustainable politically, economically, diplomatically.

Zionists are fascists committing genocide right this second. I wouldn't cry when someone said "death to Nazis" either.